Congress is working to prevent a series of automatic budget cuts that would otherwise kick in at the beginning of the new year, but some Democrats are taking a harder line: They say that unless the deal benefits middle class families, or they'll allow the country to go over the so-called "fiscal cliff."
Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) said this week that the cuts, which would amount to about $560 billion in taxes and spending cuts, need to be balanced. "Millions of jobs could be lost through the automatic cuts, programs families depend on would be slashed irresponsibly across the board, and middle-class tax cuts would expire," she said. "And once again, if Republicans won’t work with us on a balanced approach, we are not going to get a deal."
She went on, saying, "if we can’t get a good deal—a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share—then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013, rather than lock in a long-term deal this year that throws middle-class families under the bus."
Jared Bernstein, from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, said on Thursday's The Last Word that "the fact is that nobody, Patty Murray included, wants to go over this cliff as the first best option."
But, as a CBPP study showed, the notion of it being a "cliff" at all is flawed. Allowing the automatic cuts to go into effect will not trigger an immediate recession. According to the report: "If current law initially takes effect — causing various income and payroll tax cuts to expire on January 1, emergency unemployment insurance (UI) to expire while joblessness remains very high, and across-the-board spending cuts to kick in on top of the discretionary cuts that the 2011 Budget Control Act caps mandate — the economy will indeed start down a slope that could ultimately lead to a recession in 2013. But that's a far cry from the economy falling off a cliff and plunging immediately into recession."
Bernstein told Last Word host Lawrence O'Donnell that Murray and a few others recognize "that we can't achieve a sustainable budget path without new revenues. Grover Norquist has very successfully blocked that blatant reality for a very long time. And if he can be broken on this, and it takes going over the cliff, or, as we think of it, starting down a slope that we can reverse and come back up quickly, that would be a quite positive things for the economy and for fiscal policy."
MSNBC contributor Ezra Klein, who also appeared on the program, pointed out that the hard-line tactics are not just about this particular deal. "One thing Democrats are thinking about here isn't just this fiscal cliff and this tax deal, it's that they need to break the Republicans' brinkmanship altogether."
"Democrats believe at this point they need to show the Republicans that they cant keep threatening to drive the country off of of these vairous kinds of cliffs," Klein said.
Help The Last Word's design campaign buttons for its "Off The Cliff" campaign, to show Republicans that the Democrats are serious about breaking the pattern of brinkmanship.
Leave a Comment:
So the choice is "off the cliff" or "under the bus"?
Only one word to say : JUMP!!
The repukes want to raid Social Security again to pay off their political favors and rob the old folks, and tax the poor to ensure they have enough to pad their own slush funds. When America is bankrupt all that money will be worthless and all these fat cats will be as broke as the rest of us are now. It will serve them right if they had to suffer for a change.
It's time to cut the war budget by 100% and bring the troops home from all foreign bases. Then use those troops to help rebuild the infrastructure, not to destroy other nations. We need to cut all aid to israel too, that would put $3 billion back into the coffers, and end much of the conflict in that region.
America needs to take care of herself, and get on the right path, we need to stop telling everyone else how to live and force our destructive ways on them. Presently we are on the same path that Rome was on when it fell. We are now reduced to building plastic walls in the sand and for no apparent reason except for corporate greed.
What really is funny, is that Rand Paul asked me to donate to the "save the Tea Party" fund. He needs to get the backhoe out and pull his head out, if he thinks I would help that bunch of corporate puppets. let the koch brothers keep on funding them like they have been from the beginning.
I agree with you!!!
You are absolutely right. We are on the same path that Rome was on whe the Empire declined and eventually ended. Augustus Caesar tried not to expand and help the peasants. He made laws that are now our laws. However, those whol followed him tried to expand and Rome declined. When Bin Laden was fighting the Russiand he said, "We will defeat the Russiand, not by miltary force, but by making sure they keep fighting and deplete their rsources. We need to get out of other countries. WWII was a matter of survival and necessary, but since them we have wasted our resources.
Here is an eye opener..access and research The Cato Institute..a Libertarian think tank started by two men over thirty years ago..Crane and Koch. They want government interference out of the corporate world but have no problem interfering in government. One goal they have diligently worked on was the ending of Social Security, the other ..unlimited access for campaign contributions. They have accomplished one goal..they will not stop until Social Security is eliminated. Ron Paul is a member of this organization or at least been feted by them.
Stupid, stupid, stupid...to buy into the frame of "Off the Cliff." A great idea to wait for the New Year, to call the Republican's bluff, to negate Norquist. But why buy into those words? So many people who don't follow politics closely will only hear that the Dems want to send the country "Off the Cliff." It isn't a cliff. Don't call it a cliff. Find better words.
I don't understand why the Media has not picked up the angle that Republicans are hiding corrupt spending for decades with cuts to legitimate spending.
Republicans are responsible for the decimation of our economy through misuse of our tax dollars through graft and fraud, destroying American jobs and business, and investing overseas instead of here in our Country.
Dope I mean Hope. Where are the facts to back up your claims? You want to talk about miss use of tax dollars. Green energy companies that were given bail out money and then filed bankruptcy in now in to the 100 billion range. Good Democratic use of money. How much of America's money went to foreign countries to create jobs for them. Billions to invest in Brazilian oil. You have no clue as to what you are talking about.
If you want to see Bipartisan work in Washington you only have to look at the House where you see that both sides are voting together to get things done. The Problem with is with the Senate where Dirty Harry is blocking many thing from even coming to the floor. The only place where things aren't getting done are where they are controlled by the Dems.
The Charman of the Federal Reserve used the terms "Over the Cliff" before congress weeks in appearance before the House and Senate, and the Congressional Budget Office used the term "Over the Cliff". The problem is we knew this was coming, it was predictable, the cuts could have been phased in over the last 15 months, but the President and his Party's leaders in the Senate decided not to pass a budget voted on in the House each of the past two years after the President's out of all control budgets of the past two years went down to defeat unanimously due to its borrow, tax, and keep spending unpalatitbility.
We don't have a taxing problem...we have a spending problem. Compromising with the Democrats in control of the Congress, Ronald Reagan agreed in a deal cut with Tip O'Neil to a 1 dollar in new taxes for 3 dollars in spending cuts...and when the taxes were raised, the Democrats in Congress reneged, and spending went up. George Hebert Walker Bush (41) got the same raw deal, a promise of $1 in new taxes would get $2 in spending cuts, but again, the Democrat Party in control of Congress got their taxes (it sunk Bushes reelection bid), but the spending cuts never were voted through. Republican's are not STUPID...they've been down that false "balanced approach" before. The party with the label of Tax, Borrow, and Spend (the Democrats) will do just that. So, no deal. Let's get on with Tax Reform, and begin to also address the big deficit causing problems of Social Security and Medicare entitlements reform, and look into the waste, graft, and corruption in the present spending levels of the domestic spending and defense spending for the cuts that can be made there. We should have been doing that for the past 15 months, but the do nothing Senate in control of that body would have none of what was being done in the House.
The sure mandate of the American People went to the spending cutters and against the taxers and borrowers in the last National Election in 2010. There will surely be a reafirmation of that in 2012. Until then, there is no "balanced deal" going to feed the addiction of the spending junkies in Congress and the White House.
I believe it was President Obama that also offered a reduction of spending of $3 for every $1 increase of tax. The Republicans said no and they were in control of Congress..so what was their excuse for not accepting? Social Security had nothing to do with the deficit, The Senate with a small majority of Democrats have been rendered voiceless because of the cloture/filibuster senate rule...never intended to be used by the minority to bully the majority but the other way around. Most spending attributed to President Obama occurred in his first year. Laws passed by Congress to address the recession with the Stimulus Bill and to bail out the banks with the TARP. Since the entrenchment of the Tea Party in the House of Representative a brake on spending has been quite effective. There has been a freeze on raises for the administration staff. Different departments in the Administration have been cutting waste and going after fraud...particularly effective with Medicare fraud. The Party with the label "I am for Big Business" Republicans have no interest in assisting the working class. They are backed by powerful and moneyed corporations like ALEC and The Cato Institute that want government out of way to do what they do best...line their pockets. What is occurring today has been in the works for decades and these elite have orchestrated it from day one. They are patient, persistent and have the money and power. The working mass are beginning to "see" what has been occurring for decades while their voice diminished. We finally have a President that is on our side and works to return what has been stolen from us. The corporate interest has been very effective in pitting the working class against each other and promoting their fears. If they continue and most likely will succeed..this country as we know it will no longer exist. There will be the elite and the poor.
Really, Virginia.
The balanced approach that President Obama had negotiated with the Speaker of the House of Representatives prior to last year's Debt Ceiling increase, the President said he couldn't sell to his Party's liberal Senate establishment...so he asked to get additional tax revenues and less cuts in spending after the initial agreement was made that in the world of collective bargaining is know as no bargaining in good faith. It's the old "just give me this inch"..."OK, you've got it"..."Now give me a mile" approach to negotiating. That's how we got to where we are today. Obama has in the last year only met twice with the leaders of Both Houses in bipartisan, bi camerel sessions. Only twice, and not very recently...because they would rather run against Congress operating under the mandate of the American People of 2010 than negotiate with them.
The vast majority of the TARP spending to recapatilize the Big Money Center Banks and AIG was made under the George Bush administration (and that was the effective measure that gave business some sense of relief as short term money from lines of credit was flowing again into the business community well before Obama took office. Money that did not go to the Banks/or dispersed to purchase the bundled bad mortgages to then stave off foreclosures as the legislation authorizing TARP was intended that was not spent was hijacked by the Obama Administration to inject into GM mostly by way of direct purchase of stock shares and now worthless warrents, so that the Obama administration could enforce a union friendly workout (the Bond holders, Middle Mangement, and the Franchise Dealers took it on the chin) of what would ordinarily have been a Bankruptcy Court supervised workout where all parties would have an equitable treatment. That $120 billion (the vast majority to GM, the rest a loan to Chrysler Corporation that was under private equity management that has already been fully paid back). It can be argued that small loans to both GM and Chrysler of a Bankruptcy Court workout would have been a better way to go, as much of the borrowed dollars for TARP that the tax payers will be repaying for years and years to come that went to buy stock and worthless warrents (thats $24 billion already written off) could have gone to the relief of homeowners facing foreclosure or already foreclosed on thru the purchase into a Federal Housing Bank established of the bad mortgages. One can argue that relief to the Housing Market Sector would have done a lot more for the economy and the American People than shoring up the United Autoworkers Union's rich pay and benefits sturctures, and leaving their underwater Pension funds still in massive trouble as a burden to the Corporation's financial soundess. By the way, the vast majority of the funds sent to the Money Center Banks and AIG for recapitalization has already been paid back to the US Treasury, and what is outstanding still from that quarter will be repaid and intil then is paying interest payments to the Treasury.
The statistics show that the Obama Administration spent $1.6 trillion in deficit financed stimulus combined in his first year in office...and then the vast majority of that deficit spending has continued each year as he with the help of the Senate controlled by the Democrat Party has been operating the federal govenment without a budget. I ask, what Board of Directors representing stock holders would allow a Corporation to operate in that manner? Substitute the House of Representatives and the Republican minority in the Senate for the Board of Directors, and the American voter for the stock holders, and you can see what the issue is with the Corporation USA now...a rogue CEO supported by a minority of the Board (the liberal Democrat majority in the Senate), and the 2012 election as the next stock holders meeting and the assignment of proxy votes to the Conservative Board Members, and you have the correct picture of the take back of power for the good of the stock holders.
The fact that nearly 50% of the people in the US of A DON'T PAY TAKES does not mean that they are entitled to dictate the workings of the government and the decision on spending and borrowing and taxing over the voice of those that do pay the taxes. And the people that pay the taxes are headed to the polls in November in great numbers to right the sinking ship under Obama's fiscal incompetant and dangerous helmanship.
Really Keith, you conveniently ignore recent history that confirms that it is the GOP that is the "borrow and spend" party that inherited an enormous surplus from the fiscally responsible and economically prosperous Clinton administration. Republican Bush squandered that "rainy day" surplus, and more, on ill-advised tax cuts, while borrowing to prosecute two wars and expanding government entitlements (Medicare Part D). The monumental mess they left for the current administration is still holding back our economy, thanks to ongoing unpatriotic GOP obstruction hoping to tar the current administration with the poop left by Bush.
I actually want to comment on the issue of Mitt Romney misrepresenting President Obama's stand on businesses in our country being successful because of the services that our government supplies. Africa is a continent that is very, very wealthy in natural resources and brilliant people but there are very few successful countries in that giant land. The reason is agreed upon by everyone. It is the lack of infrastructure, education, and a safe and secure environment where the ownership of private property is possible.
I am sorry too many people do not understand what you just said. Infrastructure, education, and a safe and secure environment are the keys to a better future. Immigrants became successful because they realized the value of education. The children of the people who migrated here from Europe became mostly tachers, but next generation went further becoming doctors, lawyers, physicists, cancer researchers and engneeers. Some even owned professional sport teams.
Post Colonial Africa is a war torn continent with governments that are operating in cronyism capitalism, with graft, corruption, and waste...and the resulting inability of business and its populace to prosper. Come to think of it...that is a pretty apt description of the US under Obama and Company.
I agree that there is a great deal of waste in government. I saw it in school districts and when I volunteered at the Airport. Sometime they create a job just so that some relative or friend can be hired.
"Over the fiscal cliff" is a smart ploy, but a bad idea. If anyone listened to what defense contractors told Congress, the uncertainty of what will happen at the end of the year is already having a negative effect on the economy. This uncertainty is holding back companies from making any moves forward at the present. For instance, they are not going to be hiring more people now only to possibly have to make cuts come January 2013. Business anxiety is only going to continue to build over the next few months as this uncertainty continues and this will keep putting an ever increasing downward pressure on the economy.
Really..poor businesses are worried...try finding work that pays a decent wage or for full time. I listened to what was said by the defense contractors on C-Span..the "same ole same ole" we need more money in the interest of national security. It is about time these contractors started stepping up and working with less..They already owe this country a billion dollars in back taxes (that I believe was forgiven) and was glad to see some Republicans agreed. Take the money and use it for the vets..The cost to assist them must be astronomical. Get out of policing the world...because it is killing us financially.
you can't cut spending during a recession,it will only make it worse the Republicans know this . we need to keep the money flowing untill the recession is over . Ronald Reagan told thge Dum ass Republican this in the 80s . The dumest man in the world knows this . We can cut spending after things get better there needs to be more money moving ..
Keith Longey, Sounds like you've absorbed all the Republican talking points against any tax increases. so please answer this: with taxes as a percent of GDP at their lowest point in 60 years, is the nation over-taxed? In the past 30 years, there have been big tax cuts and a lot more loopholes opened up. If the Republicans are going to slash Social security, Medicaid and Medicare, fairness requires raising some tax rates and closing some loopholes - - and the refusal to do so makes no sense given all the cuts in taxes enacted over the past 30 years.
As a former Republican, I remember the 1970's when the Republican party defined fiscal discipline as balanced budgets. Jack kemp led a movement within the party to define fiscal discipline as cutting taxes regardless of spending. Balancing budgets is not popular, he argued, while lowering taxes is very popular. It was the death of fiscal responsibility - - defined by the rule that there would be no spending unless it was paid for, with the underlying principle that spending was kept in control by the fact that taxpayers would pay for it. So the majority vote in the Congress came to be dominated by the irresponsible elements in both parties: irresponsible Democrats who wanted spending without coming up with the taxes to pay for it, and irresponsible Republicans who wanted tax cuts without the pain of funding the tax cuts with unpopular spending cuts.
A huge part of the national debt is OWED TO Social Security. They have been borrowing from it for years and not paying it back. That's why they want to cut from the program, so they don't have to pay it back.
Remove the cap..Why should the middle class pay a larger percentage of their income than say someone making over what is it? $106,000?
Herb, the reason the take of taxes is so low presently is that the economy stinks, but the Federal and other government expenditures remain so high. As long as govenment sucks money out of the private sector, don't expect a sufficient take on taxes, and the answer to that problem is definitely not to raise the rates on anyone!
It is time for the Republicans to begin compromising again!! that is the only way things can get done in Washington. People vote out those who find the word compromise dirty! I find the Fox News informed people so ill informed! A lady came up to me and said that "Obama has outspent all other presidents" I quickly corrected her and said it has been the Republicans who have driven up our deficiet and not the Dems. That piece of news needs to be repeated often.
repeat/delete
Wasn't there an editorial cartoon last year on the debt ceiling fight showing a Republican standing there with a gun pointed to his head and saying, "Nobody move or I'll shoot!"
Okay, sorry. My bad... After the horror in Colorado yesterday, that one is over the line...
My heart goes out to the victims... Let's try to honor their memory by working to make this world a little saner place.
Seems to me the people holding the gun to someone's head is not a Republican, Cab Driver.
As to your other sentiment, well said. it would be a starting place if this network blog took down their BANE Blog: ridiculing Rush is one thing, but its in very poor taste now! TAKE IT DOWN!
I'm really concerned about the wisdom of advertising the plan to allow the economy to go "Off The Cliff". Even the name suggests ill intent to the American people. What if the American people blame progressives for this?
In January 2013, after Obama is re-elected, what's to prevent Republicans from filibustering proposed tax cuts and using our Off-The-Cliff buttons against progressives? They could accuse Obama of wanting to raise taxes all along. Using the filibuster, they wouldn't even have to vote (as they would be required under their tax pledge). Why wouldn't Republicans just sit back and wait for Americans to become furious at the tax increases and vote Democrats out of office again in the next midterms?
However, if Democrats could have just kept a secret... If they could have planned this thing without tipping their hands, they'd catch Republicans off guard and completely unprepared. Without the overt advertising of the Democrats' plans, Republicans wouldn't have the clear finger-pointing advantage.
The Republican's wouldn't have to filibuster against tax cuts (which is a ludicrous scenario, but I'm willing to play along), as the majority in the House (and maybe the Senate too) will be voting through legislation for reauthorizing the Bush/Obama tax cuts as it is now known from 2 years ago when Obama stated his support for extending all the tax cuts (2001 and 2003). Anything else is simply a tax increase at this point in time.
Maybe you are not a poker player,but the Dems in the Senate are bluffing, and their bluff WILL be called. So it is on them if they really want to go all in on their weak hand. Or they could start serious negotiations to split the pot and not do the catastrophic face off.
Its time.
We have had more then enough of the government hijacked by "special" and mostly financial interests.
Do what both parties agreed to do viewed to be in the best interests of the country - for once.
And Yes - restore a tax balance after it kicks in as most of this nation's citizens understand to be better for the nation as a whole - not just for a few.
LO', Great read/report...have tax cliff contribution...and more Boehner/PPACA tax stuff...will call/deliver 07.24.12....if possible.
Obama outspending Romney 2 to 1, and almost all on negative attack adds. and the latest polls blame him for the Economy over any other choice, including Banks, Bush, and Congress. In fact, Obama has lost 6% points down to a misserable 36% support in overall favorability rating since he started the Bain and Romney's ethics and character baseless attacks. Keep it up...its a winning tactic...for the Romney for President cause, that is!
Lawrence O'Donnell, you should be ashamed of yourself for your irresponsible comments this afternoon. I am in shock at your attempts to incite racism with your ignorant and careless comments which more than suggest that a reference to our President playing golf is a racially charged comment actually comparing the President to Tiger Woods. How absurd. You must be the bigot to even think of that! Race and skin color do not even matter to most Americans. I won't be watching your network. Professionalism lost at MSNBC.