"If we were to implement the Ryan plan, you could rest assured that many, many senior citizens would die who otherwise wouldn't have to," said former insurance executive Wendell Potter on Tuesday's The Ed Show. Stark language, but he had the math to back it up.
"Over the past 10 years, premiums in this country have increased 113%," explained Potter, who is now an analyst at the Center for Public Integrity. The vouchers provided by the Ryan plan, which have a value based on the rate of inflation, would not be enough to increase future premium increases, he said.
"The cost of medical care has always exceeded the rate of inflation, so over time, the value of that voucher would diminish, to the point that seniors would be paying a lot more out of their pockets for the premiums, and a lot more out of their pockets for medical care," Potter said.
Not all seniors would be able to keep up; and those that couldn't just wouldn't get the medical care they need. "If we were to implement the Ryan plan, you could rest assured that many, many senior citizens would die who otherwise wouldn't have to, because of the fact that benefits would be reduced," Potter said.
Of course, that is not what the Romney campaign is saying. It has a new television commercial out blasting the Obama administration for allegedly cutting $726 billion dollars from Medicare. That charge "is absolutely false," said Potter. "What the president is doing—what needs to be done—is to reduce payments over the next several years, but he is not cutting benefits."
In a column for Lean Forward on Tuesday, Potter said that Ryan was a "dream come true" for the health insurance industry, "and a potential nightmare for just about everyone else in America under the age of 55."
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Wendell, I keep having this one issue keep coming up in some of my conversations with my friends in the industry - the issue of inflation. I contend that, not only are we going to see ever increasing technology costs, we are going to witness an unknown increase in, as of yet undiscovered, disease, mainly as a result of Climate Change. They argue that as soon as the Baby Boomers pass on, the cost of care will crash from a younger, healther, population. I think they are dreaming (and obviously they forget that the young get old and that their argument is grounded in denial), but, what are you seeing from the industry's cost forcasting?
Why should Republicans care? They'll make money doing it. That's all that matters to them.
And the rich can pay for their own medical care. And still make contributions to the Republican party.
Some have said Governor Romney walks like a tight ass duck? I'd say if you watch newsreels it looks more like sped up 1920's silent film speeds, quick, precise as well as short steps that look more mechanical than anything else. This looks like a guy that is almost obsessively detached who likely dreads the idea of other human physical contact. Someone who likely rushes to wash his hands following a round of required handshaking. I believe this is why he appears so uncomfortable in crowds. His hope is for the comfort of the Prersidency, the ivory tower of office where contact with his constituency, the American people can be from edicts issued from the Oval office or the public distance and isolation from the National Podium while holding court on the rest of us 'people'. I am sure that almost any accredited psychoanalyst could give an accurate assessment of what is troubling this guy. M y guess is making money is not what drives this guy. He is even more obsessive in that regard than Disney's Uncle Scrooge. It is more to the point that wealth creation gives him that separation he needs from the rest of us. Putting his dog on the roof is perhaps one of the best indications of his personal view of the world. The dog is fine, as long as he keeps to his place and stays a healthy distance away. This carry's over in almost every other area of his relationship with others, more especially those that don't share his economic plateau. Note I said 'economic', not intellectual. Romney is not an intellectual. He is a son of privilege and entitlement. We, the people are clearly not worthy!
More liberal lies; part of obummer's 'Attack and Smear' campaign. Why doesn't Ed have someone on the show to talk about the 716 Billion dollars obummer cut from Medicare, (something he said he would never do), tohelp fund his costly healthcare plan. Does Wendall Potter think that will help senior citizens?
obummercare will cut Medicare reimbursements by 21% - to 27%. Wendall and Ed would have us believe that is good for senior citizens.
Sully: The $716 billion in question was not "stolen" from Medicare in the Affordable Care Act. These are cost savings that are taken from reductions in waste and other problematic areas of Medicare over a long period of time and then reinvested into other areas within the Medicare program. These cost savings and reinvestment actions help reduce the Senior's prescription "doughnut hole" and increase Medicare's efficiency as a program by keeping costs down. These cost savings are made in agreement with private health insurers and others in the complex medical industry who are involved with Medicare. You are not going to get away reciting RNC talking points on this blog. You need to do your damn research because you are coming off like an amateur.
Secondly, Wendell Potter worked in the health insurance industry as an executive for most of his career. He knows considerably more than you do about the Affordable Care Act and the changes brought about to Medicare. Where are your credentials? Where are your sources? We need to know the numbers of years you worked in the health insurance industry. We also need to know the GOP health insurance plan so that 50 million uninsured people get access to a family doctor if they get sick or hurt? Stop acting like a little yellow coward and a little pussy on the playground. Tell us your Republican health care plan for providing 50 million uninsured Americans with affordable health insurance?
Come on big Sullyman, answer the question if you have the balls to do it: Where is the GOP plan that will replace the Affordable Care Act that will give 50 million uninsured Americans affordable health insurance so they can go see the doctor? We all would love to see your GOP plans and solutions for health instead of your endless bitching, lying, and complaining about President Obama. President Obama has a feasible solution to health insurance called the ACA. All the GOP has are more empty talking points and more manuscript masturbation about health care. We have 45,000 uninsured Americans die from treatable medical conditions and another million file for bankruptcy due to expensive medical bills. The GOP is nothing short of pathetic and intellectually bankrupt when it comes to real solutions for real problems to help real people in America. The GOP is real good giving more tax cuts to the rich like Romney/Ryan want to do while gutting everything else and leaving the middle class with all the bills.
Rex comes through with another typical progressive tactic to misinform people...why should anyone be surprised? Both Sully and the article used the word "cut" and somehow Rex is able to infer that they used the word "stolen". Why cant you guys be honest in your posts instead of deliberately misleading your fellow lemmings? Oh..that's right, you can't...you're Democrats.
Additionally, stop with your attempt to scare everyone over the age of 55 about how their Medicare is going to be taken away from them under the Ryan plan...it isnt going to happen. No one over the age of 55 will see any change in their Medicare coverage.
Now if you want to have an HONEST discussion about how it affects those of us that are 54 and under, that is a different matter.
just saying...
So sayth capt re reg known for lying about everything from being banned to whatever Koch brother lame excuse and lie the Koch brothers pay advertisers to come up with. Yep you can count on old capt re reg to pull for the GOP and repeat every single talking point the GOP has created over the last 34 years. capt re reg would not push grandma over the cliff, he would rather grandma was just taken out to the woods and shot when granny became to sick to work for him.
Go get em Whomitmay !!!
It's amazing how the Republicans all say the exact same thing the exact same way at the exact same time using the exact same figures. They get their marching orders from the Drudge report and repeat it like the programmed little robots they are.
At leas sullen didn't start ranting about race like he usually does.
Exactly Chris !
The are Reich-Wing, Radical, Robotic, Rhetoric, Repeaters.
OBAMA / BIDEN / AND A DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN 2012 !!!
Amen Hope
Yet not a one of you could disprove anything I have to say. Whom continues to make allegations which he can not back up.
TRC...the reason we say them is that they are the truth and are the facts...PLEASE, provide me with proof that they are wrong. PLEASE show me something that backs up the Democrat claim that the senior citizens are going to be kicked off Medicare.
As Larry likes to say...put up or STFU....
just saying...
capt re reg we debunked your lies so many times it hasn't been funny. Your problem is you stick your fingers in your ears and repeat which tells us you refuse to see anything other then what your master told you like a good little Eichman so why bother, you are like those pro war @!$%#s of the 70's who still hung on to the belief the US could win VN.
People like Stormguy think they can come on a liberal thread and somehow convince that what they speak is the truth.
Trolls like them have no idea what the truth is if it hit them upside their big heads.
Give it to the Republicons though they still want to keep fighting.
BTW there isn't anything we have to put up when we know in our liberal hearts the fabric of your agenda. That's the truth, brother!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
stormguy,
ryan's plan cuts the same amount from medicare, but the difference is in how the cuts affect PATIENTS.
people over the age of 55 will be affected under the ryan plan in specific ways-under Obama the cuts affect drug companies and etc, patients are not expected to make up the difference.
ryan's plan closes the donut-hole for brand name drugs, so patients will be spending more for medications, and patients also do not get free preventative services.
this is how i understand it to be in a nutshell, i'm not too familiar with all of it, yet.
stormguy's convinced nobody of anything other than he's an idiot.
Which he does on a daily basis.
The Romney-Ryan talking points say that their cuts will not affect current Seniors receiving Medicare, obviously they are trying to paper over the fact that their agenda to repeal the Affordable Care Act WILL affect current Seniors receiving Medicare by reopening the doughnut hole, which is where much of the $700+ billion supposedly "stolen" from Medicare (actually taken from for profit insurance companies) goes, to take away the doughnut hole from Medicare recipients.
Of course the best thing of all would be to eliminate insurance companies altogether and to begin a single payer system so that all Americans would have access to physicians and have whatever health care their physicians say they need (and cutting health care costs more than in half in the process).
I would like someone to explain the double talk of reducing payments but not cutting benefits. reducing payments does effectively reduce benefits.
No reducing payments while keeping the same benefits is not a reduction but rather getting more while paying less or the Obama plan. You are using double talk when you try to say reducing payments means reducing benefits, because you think less payments automatically reduce benefits, which would be the case with the Ryan plan which does nothing to stop insurance companies from reducing benefits when payments are reduced.
Payment explanation from a person that can't even do simple math.
He thinks the over 8% unemployment for the past years is adding jobs.
Dude thinks over 41 million people on food stamps is economic growth.
He also thinks that the over 12 million people out of work means the private sector is doing fine.
Yeah cow man I know you have math problems anything over 20 you call a lot. Really lame attempts at projecting as well as showing that you are a liar, how do we know, rather simple the only people you care about is yourself as we have seen your rants about the lazy out of work people on government handouts time after time after time, so don't pretend you care you are just trying to blame others for GOP deeds.
5.1 Whom--make sure you never go into business, it would not be good for you.
You are saying that instead of selling a loaf of bread for $2.00 you would sell two loaves for $1.00 . Pay less and get more. So, do you and your buddy obama believe this would be a good business plan? WOW!
Republican nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic.
BS is all they have Whom. All the teabagger policies to destroy the middle class are coming back to haunt them. The light has been turned on the cockroaches and they're running for cover.
Mick - great contribution to the Medicare debate. You liberals debate like obummer: you can't cite any successful policies of his so you attack Romney's physical appearance?
Sullyman . . . you are NOT interested in the truth about President Obama's successes because you are a Reich-Wing, Radical, Robotic Rhetoric, Repeater.
READ THIS :
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_has_President_Barack_Obama_done_so_far#ixzz1xLCaHCY9
What has President Barack Obama done so far?
Answer:
In his first week in office, Barack Obama did the following:
Froze the salaries for top White House staff members. This is a largely symbolic act, but might be an important one.
Set a deadline for the closing of Guantanamo Bay. Some of his supporters would say this is a great thing because they believe it operates as something from the Dark Ages. Others believe this characterization to not be true, and that no plan will be put place to determine what to do with the prisoners. Time will tell.
Fast-tracked the process to apply new fuel standards to 2011 car models AND initiated steps to allow California to set its own standards for auto emissions that are stricter than that of the Federal government. Again, this is a measure that some of his supporters hail as a grand step forward, while his detractors (or flamers) point out that it could provide an additional severe drag on the economy, especially in car manufacturing areas.
Signed a detailed executive order to ban torture and inhumane treatment of prisoners.
Asked the military leadership to engage in additional planning necessary to execute a responsible military draw down from Iraq.
Released the interrogation memos without consulting the Bush staff and/or Bush about it. And they were only partially released some of the information in the memos were not made public.
Signed an executive order that restored a 30-day time frame for former presidents to review records before they are released. It also eliminated the right for the vice president or family members of former presidents to do the reviews.
Signed an executive order that requires that appointees sign forms saying that they were not hired because of political affiliations or contributions. This is far from an unbeatable measure, but is an important early step towards cleaning up governmental hiring policies. It is easier to prove someone lied when their signature is right next to the statement in question.
Signed an order banning gifts from lobbyists and banning anyone from working in an agency they had lobbied in previous years. Promptly made the order toothless by immediately granting a waiver to a former defense lobbyist.
Lifted a ban on giving federal money to international groups that perform abortions or provide abortion information.
Granted his first TV interview as president to Al-Arabiya, a channel described as a "voice of moderation" to the Middle East. His supporters call this a very smart move to help angered nations and groups feel a bit less cast aside, and let them know that they need not resort to violence to be made a part of the world discussion. Detractors point out that this is the type of thing Neville Chamberlain would have done, though a TV interview and "the Munch Agreement" are leagues apart.
In his first 7 months in office
He's done quite a lot actually.
He has so far passed an economic recovery bill which has met mixed criticism but is slowly progressing. He has passed the AMD Stabilization and Support bill which was tailored to help stabilize and strengthen the United States Military, and has shown improvement within the standard. President Obama has also been working on other proposals, bills, and acts to be passed on topics such as Health Care reform, Education, the Mortgage crisis, the war on Al-Qaeda, and Domestic policy.
Promised to send additional troops to Afghanistan in March and began the pullout of troops in Iraq.
Passed the bailout of the auto industry and pressured their management to tow the party line.
Waffled on sending troops and allowed those serving no suffer from lack of support. (If you had to send 30,000 Americans to a war zone I bet you would hesitate unless I realized lives were at stake and I was in charge)
Refused to allow open meetings regarding health care reform as promised.
Passed more tax increases on middle America than any other President.
Encouraged Cap and trade passage to increase demand of foreign oil and raise the cost of our supply. (How does cap and trade increase demand? (See discussion))
Promised to make tough decisions regarding the ability to continue paying medicare payments. Cutting $400 billion from their budget.
Insulted police doing their jobs making the office look foolish. (How? (See discussion)
First Year:
Sent troops to Afghanistan but pulled troops out of Iraq (What planet? He has NT pulled out of Iraq!) we are now at 115,000 troops as of 2/11/2010! Zero actual draw down.
Made a more transparent form of Government (almost daily daily Facebook Q&A's with his staff) Has had more closed door meetings then any previous administration. Even his open door committee only has closed door meetings!
Tried several times to get the Republicans to join him and get bi-partizanship on the destruction of democracy. Republicans did not wish to contribute!
Passed a stimulus package that is creating no jobs across the country. This bill has given more to the rich then every previous President combined!
Well on his way to passing the HC bill which will ration health care to most Americans and help less then 12 million. The cost will destroy our children's and grand children's future.
Managed to have the two worst months for deficit spending ever. (The two Februarys he has been President)
_______________________________—
He became President of the United States. President Obama is also the first black President of the United States.
He also:
Saved the collapse of the American automotive industry by making GM restructure before bailing them out, and putting incentive money to help the industry
Shifted the focus of the war from Iraq to Afghanistan, and put the emphasis on reducing terrorism (where it should have been all along)
Relaxed Anti-American tensions throughout the world
Signed order to close the prisoner "torture camp" at Guantanamo Bay
Has made the environment a national priority, and a primary source for job creation
Has made education a national priority by putting emphasis and money behind new ideas like charter schools, but speaking directly to school children in telling them they have to do their part
Won the Nobel Peace Prize
Created a $789 billion economic stimulus plan
Made the appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court
Pushed for attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles
Authorized construction/opening of additional health centers to care for veterans
Renewed dialogue with NATO and other allies and partners on strategic issues
Began the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force. This includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.
Provided better body armor to our troops
Created the "Cash for clunkers" program that offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars to help stimulate auto sales, save energy, and help the environment
Changed the failing status quo military command in Afghanistan
Closed offshore tax safe havens
Deployed additional troops to Afghanistan
Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts
Ended media blackout on war casualties and the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB
Ended the previous practice of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules
Ended previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings
Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports
Enabled the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act that has created 2.1 million jobs (as of 12/31/09)
Ended previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions
Ended previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back
Ended previous policy on torture; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with the Geneva Convention standards
Launched website Recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, an unprecedented step to provide transparency and accountability through technology
Ended previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry's predatory practices
Ended previous "stop-loss" policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
Enabled law that energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources
Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient
Established a new cyber security office
Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children
Expanded vaccination programs
Allows families of fallen soldiers to have expenses
Provided the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) with more than $1.4 billion to improve services to America's Veterans
Encouraged Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research
Budgeted funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools
Responded with compassion and leadership to the earthquake in Haiti
Responded immediately and efficiently to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters
Launched Business.gov - enabling conversation and online collaboration between small business owners, government representatives and industry experts in discussion forums relevant to starting and managing a business - Great for the economy
Improved housing for military personnel
Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals
Changed failing war strategy in Afghanistan
Improved benefits for veterans
Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants…) after years of neglect
Donated his $1.4 million Nobel Prize to nonprofit organizations
Increased opportunities in AmeriCorps program
Provided tax credits to first-time home buyers through the Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009 to revitalize the U.S. housing market
Increased pay and benefits for military personnel
Increased student loans
Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return "home" to visit loved ones
Cracked down on companies that deny sick pay, vacation and health insurance to workers by abusing the employee classification of independent contractor. Such companies also avoided paying Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance taxes for those workers
Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000
Placed limits on lobbyists' access to the White House
Protected 300,000 education jobs that would have otherwise been lost, such as teachers, principals, librarians, and counselors through the Recovery Act
Placed limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration
Pushed for the Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act on February 4, 2009, which provides quality health care to 11 million kids - 4 million who were previously uninsured
Lowered drug costs for seniors
Made more loans available to small businesses
Held many more press conferences and town halls and provides much more media access than previous administration
Signed the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first piece of comprehensive legislation aimed at improving the lives of Americans living with paralysis
Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
Promoted a new Afghan War policy that limits aerial bombing and prioritizes aid, development of infrastructure, diplomacy, and good government practices by Afghans
Announced creation of a Joint Virtual Lifetime Electronic Record for medical records of members of the U.S. Armed Forces to improve quality of medical care
Encouraged new federal funding for science and research labs
Created new funds for school construction
Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending
Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices
Began the phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren't even used or needed in Iraq and Afghanistan
Reengaged in the talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions
Provided tax credit to workers thus cutting taxes for 95% of America's working families
Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic
Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research
Helped reverse a downward spiral of the stock market. On January 19, 2009, the last day of President Bush's presidency, the Dow closed at 8,218.22. In February 2010, the Dow closed at 10,309.24
Renewed loan guarantees for Israel
Restarted the nuclear non-proliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure and protocol
Returned to the government the money authorized for his family's refurbishment of White House offices and private living quarters
Sent envoys to the Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy
Unveiled a program on Earth Day 2009 to develop the renewable energy projects on the waters of our Outer Continental Shelf that produce electricity from wind, wave, and ocean currents. These regulations will enable, for the first time ever, the nation to tap into our ocean's vast sustainable resources to generate clean energy in an environmentally sound and safe manner
Signed national service legislation; expanded national youth service program
Permitted states to enact fuel efficiency standards above federal standards
Arranged for students struggling to make college loan payments to have their loans refinanced
Commanded and authorized the SEALS team to gain the successful release of a US captain held by Somali pirates
Pushed for the FDA to now regulate tobacco
Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
Cut the missile defense program by $1.4 billion in 2010
Provided for the public to meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying
Arranged for the closing of the "secret detention" facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere
Implemented the US financial and banking rescue plan
Commanded the US Navy to increase patrols off the Somali coast
Signed the Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act to stop fraud and wasteful spending in the defense procurement and contracting system
Visited more countries and met with more world leaders in his first six months in office than any prior President
Improved relations with Iran
Improved U.S. policy on climate change
Set timetable for exiting Iraq and brought troops home
Improved relations with Russia
Improved relations with the Islamic World
Made progress towards greater cooperation on limiting nuclear proliferation
Created jobs with his economic stimulus plan causing the unemployment rate to decrease
Drastically slowed down the recession
Saved Wall Street
Passed the Lilly Ledbetter Act (equal work for equal pay)
Signed the healthcare reform laws
Yep.
Sulleyman. I don't know anybody name "obummer". But you sir are a liar, a jerk and totally disrespectful. You have nothing to contribute and don't want to, only insult, call names and disrupt. You're not near as good as some of the other trolls. But it takes time for the re-regs to get back in so as not to be noticed. Enjoy your stay while you can.
Sally banned at least 3 of the Reich-Wing Trolls today and Sullyman and Stormguy are next !!
They are NOT here to have discussions ! They are here to disrupt. Plain and simple AND pathetic !
What do you do HopeTroll? I have yet to see you post and in intelligent reply. All you do is call names.
If I am banned it is because MSNBC doesn't believe in freedom of speech. I see a lot of hate and lies spewed by the liberals here but they are rarely banned.
Definition of a troll, spreads right wing talking points repeating them no matter how often they are debunked, never stays on topic but instead attacks Obama, liberals, democrats and Ed. Sorry Hope doesn't fit the definition, but on the other hand you do. Oh and a troll also re regs every time they are banned.
No sully. It will be because of you disrespect. Your spaming. Your insults. I've yet to see you post anything but disrespect for others ideas or comments. You signed a set of rules when you came here. You've violated some already.
Sillyman, you bring nothing to the table but Oxyrush and glenn Beck BS lies and disinformation yet you expect to be treated fairly? Respect is earned, not given.
You forgot about the over $5 trillion added to the debt, the over 8% unemployment for the past 3 years.
The over 41 million on food stamps, the over 12 million people out of work.
Medical device companies not expanding due to obama care, small companies not expanding due to obama care.
Next you have a lot of falsehoods in that lsit. But when did any ed show blog liberal care about the facts & truth.
No cow man 5 trillion is just the hidden costs of GWB put back on the books. The only one lying is you.
It is impossible for GWB to add to the debt.
He has not been in office for 4years.
Obama has been the one spending the money not Bush.
On one hand you tell me it is the house that spends the money, then you tell me it's GWB the president.
Then you tell me obama can't spend money with out the house saying okay.
Then you tell me it was GWB that spent all this money.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
How you doing on that 8th grade math question I gave you?
You know : Ann lives 3 times as far as Jane does from school, Ann lives 10 more blocks farther from school than Jane, how far does each girl live from school?
Like I said reading problems and according to the CBO you pretend that has all the answers Obama has spent less then a trillion in 4 years, what you are calling Obama spending is hidden cost GWB kept off the budget, interest on the trillions GWB spent as well as spending that was already in place before Obama took office. But then you only believe what you want and refuse to hear anything factual, really you could care less about spending we know this because you want to put people who have shown no interest in a balanced budget back into power. In fact they run around claiming deficits don't matter unless a democrat is sitting in the white house. So go take your nonsense back to where ever you got it and whine there, it isn't going anywhere on Ed's blog because you are not talking to dumb people like yourself who can't grasp complex problems.
It in fact is the CBO that shows obama care takes over $700 billion from Medicare.
Furthermore it is the democratic controlled senate that has not passed a budget in over 3 years now.
The house keeps sending them a budget to debate, but reid will have none of that none sense.
From the Wall Street Journal:
Obama spending binge never happened
Rex Nutting
Commentary: Government outlays rising at slowest pace since 1950s
May 22, 2012|Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Of all the falsehoods told about President Barack Obama, the biggest whopper is the one about his reckless spending spree.
As would-be president Mitt Romney tells it: “I will lead us out of this debt and spending inferno.”
Almost everyone believes that Obama has presided over a massive increase in federal spending, an “inferno” of spending that threatens our jobs, our businesses and our children’s future. Even Democrats seem to think it’s true.
But it didn’t happen. Although there was a big stimulus bill under Obama, federal spending is rising at the slowest pace since Dwight Eisenhower brought the Korean War to an end in the 1950s.
Even hapless Herbert Hoover managed to increase spending more than Obama has.
Here are the facts, according to the official government statistics:
• In the 2009 fiscal year — the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion. Check the official numbers at the Office of Management and Budget.
• In fiscal 2010 — the first budget under Obama — spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.
• In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.
• In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.
• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.
Over Obama’s four budget years, federal spending is on track to rise from $3.52 trillion to $3.58 trillion, an annualized increase of just 0.4%.
There has been no huge increase in spending under the current president, despite what you hear.
Why do people think Obama has spent like a drunken sailor? It’s in part because of a fundamental misunderstanding of the federal budget.
What people forget (or never knew) is that the first year of every presidential term starts with a budget approved by the previous administration and Congress. The president only begins to shape the budget in his second year. It takes time to develop a budget and steer it through Congress — especially in these days of congressional gridlock.
The 2009 fiscal year, which Republicans count as part of Obama’s legacy, began four months before Obama moved into the White House. The major spending decisions in the 2009 fiscal year were made by George W. Bush and the previous Congress.
Like a relief pitcher who comes into the game with the bases loaded, Obama came in with a budget in place that called for spending to increase by hundreds of billions of dollars in response to the worst economic and financial calamity in generations.
http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-05-22/commentary/31802270_1_spending-federal-budget-drunken-sailor
This is funny as heck. The hypocrites have been complaining about fear mongering from GOP. Then, on the campaign trail in just one day, Obama manages to campaign on a dog, and Biden tells a predominately Black audience that the GOP wants them back in chains.
You liberals are just nothing but funny in your hypocrisy.
Well stop being a hypocrite then rusty, after all it isn't our fault you never see your faults.
Rusty just can't stand it when the President makes Robme look like a fool (which isn't hard). It's ok rustly, it'll all be over in Nov. and you and the rest of the numbskull teabaggers can go back to calling the president a commie...socialist....antichrist......whatever.
R.I.P Shameus
I always feel vindicated for being a Republican when I read what the other side has to offer. See- you two do lend value to me.
Now- a thinking liberal would admit that Biden is your version of Sarah Palin. Everytime he speaks, you can hear Obama holding his breath.
Go back and look at the debates between Joe and palin. It was comical. Momma Moose never answered one question asked to her. All she did was run off at the mouth with teabagger nonsense and winks. Joe just stood by and let her cut her own political throat. It was truly comical to watch.
lol- Now I see that Obama has come to Biden's defense. Can you atleast admit that if a Republican told a predominately Black audience that a Democratic proposal would "put y'all back in chains" that Ed and his cronies at MSNBC would be all over it as evidence of racist policies- etc?
Or you could deny it and prove you are clueless? Whom- I would expect you to step up here and show us.
Hell no because thats a redundant statement!...LOL.. Show one instance that would actually happen rusty...LOL...Are you serious?
Which part would actually happen, Tex? I could show lots of instances where whom has proven herself clueless, but you are right, that would be redundant. If, though you mean one instance where Ed would handle a stupid statement by a democrat the same way he would a republican, then you're right again. It wouldn't happen.
tex- you may also want to rethink you silly assertation about a week ago that Republicans are the ones who use scare tactics for voters. A look at numeroous Ed Show highlights, includiing this one- say otherwise. "Seniors would die" as well as many other headlines sort of seems to be a scare tactic. Or you could disagree- but I do give you more credit than that.
Actually Biden said the GOP wanted "Y'all back in chains". This is the same idiot who said you can't walk into a convenience store without hearing an Indian accent.
What I don't understand is why liberals idolize obummer so much.
He actually is the idiot who said he wanted to talk about a three letter word...
JOBS...
What a moron...
just saying...
According to capt re reg and the rest of the tea bagged republicans who are so caught up in racism and bigotry they have no understanding of the word,s, but then they are afraid that Joe is giving away GOP secrets about the future of the US citizen.
Funny. I just said sullen managed to rant without mentioning race for once. I spoke too soon.
LOL ! Just give him a moment Chris . . . he will shove his foot in it every time !!
SadChris - it was Biden who brought race into the debate by saying "the GOP wanted "Y'all back in chains". You can't get your facts straight even when it's staring you in the face!
Your hypocrisy's got you twisted into a pretzel.
Can you type with the robe and the hood on? Or do you have to take it off?
Funny how racists always pull out the race card whenever anyone mentions chains yet ignores that in the time before and during the forming of workers unions workers were bound by the invisible chains of the corporations who dictated a persons wages, hours and every other aspect of the workers life. Which caused the workers to coin the term slave wages.
yeah...that is what Biden meant...because he is so well known for speaking with such deep metaphors and analogies.
thanks for providing me a laugh today WHOM...that was hilarious...in one post you talk about how that he was talking about the GOP plan and in the very next one you come up with this farfetched pile of dog squeeze about how he was talking about the chains of corporations...you are hilarious...
just saying..
Thats ok capt re reg, we know that lying republicans often laugh when they are caught in their racist beliefs and other faults.
To Republicons:
What short memory you trolls have! You point to demonize libs and POTUS/VP and less conveniently forget the previous 8 years where we had the richest get more breaks on YOUR backs, send your friend, brother, father, mother, sister, etc to two unfunded wars, and neglected to fund Medicare during this while making the Post Office rediculously pre-fund to the tune of billions a year since 2006 of their retirement.
What the hell is wrong with you? You all need some intervention. Go see a therapist, or something.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Bahrrt....am I mistaken or didnt every single tax bracket get a reduction under President Bush?
just asking...
Which helped create a massive deficit. Economics 101, you can't spend more than you take in, correct? Spending on Medicare part B, two unpaid for wars and borrowing a trillion dollars to pay for the top 2% tax cuts that created an even bigger deficit. NO money coming in and spending like a 14 yr old with a platinum credit card at the mall. And you call yoursleves CONservatives?
My point was that EVERYONE benefitted from the lower rates...not just the "rich". EVERYONE should have higher rates in order to help put the country back in the right direction.
And I agree...the Republicans spent way too much money. And the Democrats did also. As a matter of FACT, the Democrats were controlling the spending pursestrings from Jan 2007 - Jan 2011 when the vast amount of overspending occurred.
just saying...
No just lying again capt re reg.
Storm, I'll be darned. If you look it up, you are right.
I also heard Obama talk about how healthy the economy was when Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy. The funniest part of that twist is that Clinton raised taxes on everyone by a record amount, just a few short years after read my lips bush raised them on everyone by a then record amount. And Clinton followed that by lowering the capital gains rate and the tax rate on overseas income earned by corporations when the brought the cash into this country.
So the example Obama is extolling would raise across the board taxes and lower capital gains and earned abroad income. Oh- you libs may want to look up the fact that Al Gore, as vice president, cast the 51st vote to increase the amount of income taxed on social security recipients.
Stormguy,
Does it matter when the richest people are paying a smaller portion than you and I? And...if I am not mistaken it has added to the national debt!
...and I am not asking.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Bahrrt- it's doubtful that rich people pay less than you in general. A few cases have been shown with people who make their money through investing, bu the huge majority make their money through payroll income, and thusly have a high rate. Even Obama admits his Buffett rule would affect relatively few people.
So, figure your rate. Take your total top line 2011 income and divide it into your total federal tax paid. Probably lower than you think. Many people overestimate their actual percent.
Rusty. What are you talking about? I am at a higher tax bracket than Mittens plain and simple.
I don't know what you are trying to convey, but I am paying 15 points higher. Meaning I pay a higher rate than Mit who BTW may not have paid a single dime for the last 10 years, but we are all deprived of that since it is blatantly obvious he his hiding something.
But we'll never know
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Where is that GOP health insurance plan Sullyman? You sound like a little pussy playing on the playground. Stop being an amateur and start coming up with a real health care plan that helps 50 million uninsured Americans with affordable health insurance? GOP solutions ring hollow on health care. Romneycare is very similar to the Affordable Care Act but now Romney wants to repeal the ACA. Well where is your GOP plan to provide 50 million uninsured with affordable health care so they can see the doctor if they are sick or hurt? Answer the damn question or else get the hell off of this blog.
Rex, you're such a dumbass. This country is broke because of obummer and you expect his healthcare to pay for an addtional 50 million Americans who are most likely covered by Mdicaid?
Do the math you idiot.
No, the country is broke because of 12 years of Bush tax cuts, two unfunded wars that George kept off the books, which by the way, Pres Obama PUT ON the books after he took office, and unfunded Big Pharma, also thanks to George. So don't give me that crap about how it's Obama's fault. Especially since he's had nothing but obstructionism from YOUR party since he was elected.
the last time I checked, the constitution does not say anything about the HOR or the Senate having to do everything that the President wants to do. These two bodies were not designed by our founding fathers to simply rubber stamp every piece of legislation that the president wants. These people are elected to go to Washington and represent the views of the people who put them there.
Its funny how you Democrats never talk about the obstructionism that the Senate shows regarding the pieces of legislation that the HOR has sent over for a vote. When it works for you, you guys are as quiet as church mice.
the country is broke because BOTH parties suck and we need to implement term limits on all elected officials.
just saying...
Who cares capt re reg, you are not on the SCOTUS so whatever interpretation you come up with is wrong because you can not interpret or understand the constitution, no one has a say on what the constitution means except the SCOTUS.
Stormguy:
The HOR hasn't done ANYTHING that POTUS wanted to do to benefit the country and the middle class, you dope. You belong to that group!
You make it seem that HOR did something for THIS President while your friend in the Senate-McConnell vowed from day one to replace this POTUS.
You trolls are sick! Just sayin....
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Bahrtt...please show me where they have a legal obligation to do anything that POTUS wants...I will not be holding my breath waiting for a sensible response...
Whom...if I am wrong...which I am not, please give us your brilliant insight as to where in the constitution it says that the elected officials in either the HOR or the Senate is REQUIRED to pass any particular bill that the POTUS presents. Just as with Bahrtt, I will not be holding my breath waiting for a sensible response...
just saying...
capt re reg everything you post is a lie based on a lie. That you believe you are a credible poster is just your own delusions acting up again. No one outside of your 3 right wing buddies takes your word on anything. You been 100% wrong from the day you re reged after your ban.
as I suspected, you cant prove me wrong, because I wasnt.
its okay...you lose AGAIN...
just saying...
The funniest part of the goofy lead to this entry is the claim of 12 years of Bush tax cuts. I believe the cuts had a life of 9 years. How could they be 12 years of his. Why wouldn't the last two years of them be the "Obama tax cuts"?
Stormguy
With that logic and sensibilty there isn't a way (in your world). Not in mine. Sharing a common vision for the masses for Americans should be everyone's obligation to do what it takes to make it so.
You, sir, are irrelevant when you think and say they have no obligation to do anything.
You trolls should be cast out, or just keep holding your breath.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Logic and sensibility according to whose standard? whose vision? Our founders put the current structure in place to help prevent the tyrannical reign of any single person or group of people.
You might not like it because it isn't going your way, but guess what...you have to deal with it..or find a way to LEGALLY change the constitution...
just saying...
Who's standard and vision, you say? If you really have to ask then you can not be a patriot!
The average hot dog eating, Chevy drivin, apple pie American. Which, not to leave out, if you like tacos, or Chinese, or southern grits, fried chicken, and collard greens.
Dude that is what I am talking about. And that distinguishes me from people like you. I care for everyone, and you care about, well, ideals, and wealth, not people of the U.S.
If you did you wouldn't double down on tax cuts for the richest. Line pockets of the largest corps with the fattest CEO's while our children don't have pencils to write with in some of the poorest areas of the country. Dismantle jobs and send them to a place where people fight each other for the $.80 an hour.
I could go on but I think I have made my point loud and clear, and your points fall on deaf ears here!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Bahhrt - again, how much have the Obama tax cuts cost us? Please add in the FICA 2% cut
rusty...don't confuse them with facts, you know how unfair that is.
all bahrrt wants to do is whine, like most of the democrats. See, he doesnt believe in individual responsibility or self reliance. He wants to sit back and let everyone else do the work for him. He thinks much like "noodle boy"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtonKfWw2JY
..that the businesses belong to the workers, not to the person who put up all of the financial capital to get it started. Obviously, in his mind, businesses dont have the right to do what they think is in the best interest of the company in order for it to survive.
He is too dumb to realize that the tax cuts went to everyone. But that isnt good enough for him, He wants to keep his extra money, but make everyone else be the ones who pay they bill Typical Liberal greed...
Stormguy
Wow you are totally the single dumbest Republicon I have ever come across!
I never said businesses don't have the right to do what is in their best interest. In fact, my family have owned restaurants and a cousin of mine owned was an independent mortgage broker. What I do have a problem with is since I was 15 in 1985 and Ronald "Trickle Down" Regan started a revolution. One that allowed business to go overseas and then recieve subsidies for doing so.
Soon after my mother lost her job to Mexico. And 15 years later my Dad was lucky enough to retire since 5 years after that they moved to China.
All for the almighty profit dollars. Never mind the working middle class AMERICANS, YOU F***!
It turns my stomach to think that there are people like you that vets are willing to give their lives for so you can wipe the American flag with your a$$!
I really can't wait for the debates to begin and Obama and Biden mop the floor with Etch-A-Sketch and the Ayn Rand athiest-loving cheesehead.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Rusty are you honestly comparing 10+ years of tax cuts for the rich vs. a non sequitur?
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
The RomneyRyan plan is more concerned with helping insurance companies make money than they are concerned with adequately providing health care for American citizens!
Their lies about President Obama are egregious!
Obama/Biden 2012 FORWAD " Christians don't vote for liars"
DenLiz - will you get off the class envy you and the other liberals learned from obummer!
" Christians don't vote for liars" then why do you plan on voting for obummer. He has done nothing but lie.
She is not having class envy and you know it. It is a proven fact that the Radical Republicans have STOLEN tax dollars from the middle class for decades !
If anyone is engaging in class warfare it is Radical, Republican Billionairres.
They live OFF of America.
The rest of us live IN America.
But you are so brainwashed you do not know the difference.
Good job selecting against your own survival by supporting them.
Remember folks the tea bagged republicans are always projecting their traits onto others because they live in a structured regulated world where everyone is just like them, they can't grasp that anyone wouldn't want to be just like them, but then most sane people are not suffering from paranoid delusions caused from listening to republican fear mongering.
Exactly Whom !! It is like their lie about President Obama and Medicare. They knew they were going to get creamed about gutting Medicare so what do they do ? Make up a lie about President Obama stealing from Medicare.
The are all sinking into oblivion on the SS Teatanic though. GOOD RIDDANCE !
Wait until you see just what socialized medicin brings, honey ! Then you will know pain, and regret.
@Reaganomics1 Re: #11.5
You say socialized medicine brings pain and regret.
If this is universally true answer this question:
"Why is it that the National Health Service was celebrated in the Opening Ceremonies at the London Olympics?"
Reagonomics1
Really? Now minions of Fox are trying to vomit their fears onto a Lib thread. Come on, man. That works with the zombies on your side of the isle, but not here.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
And How many Fox viewers are on Medicare now ?? Phoney B.S. !!!
Hah! Good one!
The only socialized medicine in North American is in the United States and has existed for decades, The only socialized medicine in North America is US Military and DVA health care.
Medicare and Canadian health care are single payer systems, which are the diametrical opposite of socialized medicine.
The Affordable Care Act is neither socialized medicine nor single payer. It is the smae old inferior insurance run health care that has existed in the United States for way too long.
Within 10 years, the United States will have a single payer system, just as Canada has, because insurance run health acre is unsustainable and single payer (which is the opposite of socialized medicine) costs about 45% to 48% of what insurance run health care costs, as it does in every other industrialized nation.
Hope- I didn't even bother to look at what you agreed with whom on, but you need to know your credibility is at risk everytime you agree with her.
Lol- I just read whom above. Looks like she is trying to project her traits upon others. How funny is she.
Rex - The ACA is smoke and mirrors and you and people like you are stupid enough to believe it.
You like to call names, you're real tough when you're hiding behind a keyboard. I doubt very much that you talk like that in person
Spoken like a weenie who comes here to put down the people who blog here.
You are pathetic.
I'm quite sure you do. Which is why you have to come here to say it.
Sully- you are the typical trolling right wing extremist with your hate and intolerance but no facts. And do you have amnesia? Remember the 8 years of Bush and Republican congress that spent spent spent without policies in place to pay for any of it?
You are delusional now go back to your hate mongering FOX network.
you mean when the largest deficit was approx $500 billion as compared to Obama's 4 straight years of deficits well in excess of $1 trillion? You mean when for the vast majority of his presidency the unemployment was under 5.5% as compared to the over 8% that we have had for approx. 40 straight months under Obama? Are you forgetting that it was the Democrats in control of the spending beginning in Jan 2007 when the spending really escalated?
How about those FACTS...
just saying...
You do not want facts. You are here to talk smack about Progressives and Democrats and that is all.
You would not know a fact if it bit you on the nose.
John - where is the hate and intolerance except what I direct against Obama because of what he is doing to this country and Rex because of his asinine personal attacks.
You seem to think because I don't support Obama I supported Bush. I didn't suppot either and consider them both bad presidents.
Obama has been a dismal failure. That's why he is now the 'Attack and Smear' president. I'd rather take a chance on a successful businessman then risk four more year of him
MSNBC is the one that spews hate and lies. Ed never has guests with apposing viewpoints on, he only has people on that repeat his lies.
Did somebody pass some gas ? Oh no. Its just another Reich-Wing Troll passing off crap as truth. Nice try. Get lost.
Hope - you and MD/Mi 'GOMER' have nothing to offer here except stupid replies to people try to argue a valid viewpoint!
sully if we wanted your opinion we would read the Drudge Report the same as you do then come over here and repeat that bull@!$%#.
sillygirl ---- I / We just find it Very difficult to converse with Brick-Walls -- I just won't waste My time Trying -- There is just No reasoning with Swamp-Ratts {GOMERS} !!!! just sayin'........
Hope...instead of just pretending to be Whom or Larry or anyone of these other lemmings out on this board who simply regurgitate the same left wing lines, why don't you step up to the plate and actually use your brain.
I presented you with facts....please show me where any of my facts are wrong. Instead of just saying I lied...prove I did. Are you up for the challenge?
None of the rest of the progressives on this board are....
just saying...
Says the guy who worships at the alter of Glen Beck and repeats Becks paranoid delusions every post he makes.
Stormguy get you facts straight.
Both wars combined cost have added over $5T underfunding Medicare by $3T so try at least to be a smart Republicon troll, sir.
Geez, almost forgot, the billions of $$$ of Bush taxes over the last 10 years for the rich on OUR backs! Pfttttt...
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Stay Strong Sully as is typical on this site when people disagree with your point of view or opinion even when based upon well reasoned facts all they can do is spout the hate and garbage that the leader of thier Socialist Cause Barry O and joe the the bigot biden spew out or through their groundhog crews in chicago.
More Reich-Wing talking points !
How ( not ) original . . . if uninteresting . . . of you.
You are welcome to come back when you can think for yourself.
Which will be never.
Bahrtt...here are the FACTS...please follow closely...it might be hard for you since you are a Dummycrat, but at least try...
The cost of the wars has been $1.3 trillion and that is after Obama has allowed them to continue on for almost 4 years. Oh...want my source... http://costofwar.com
the tax rates benefitted EVERYONE in this country, not just the rich...FACT
Dont come play at the grownup's table until you have earned your stripes...go on back to the kiddie area...
just saying..
capt re reg heres the facts, you have no facts you have right wing lies, get over yourself and move on.
it is amazing how you continually say I lie but you have yet to ever be able to prove anything actually is a lie. For a person as with your high intellect, that should be easy...
LOL...I actually was able to keep a straight face when I typed about your "high intellect"..but I couldnt hold it in...that would ahve been the first lie I told on this board...
just saying..
Stormguy
LOL The National Priorities Project? You are siteing the National Priorities Project? A right wing site.
I just simply Googled "true costs of Iraq and Afganistan" and recieved a Washington Post article dated in 2010! In 2008 alone it was $3T! Think what it is now, you knuckle-headed Republicon troll? It may be even more than $5T!!!
Your second little point is rediculous, too. Everyone got a break? Seems to me, logically, when Etch-A-Sketch is allowed to pay less than 15% on his taxes and, maybe, we don't know, but maybe not pay any taxes at all then I can only surmize that it is total BS, as your point. Average Americans have taken a back seat to the rich and their lobbists, and enough is enough!
Third, don't come to me about earning stripes! You are addressing a war vet that has more than earned them!
Trolls, like yourself, don't even belong with the kids! And, please, for the love of God, stop saying, "just saying", when you are obviously not saying anything worth of comprehension.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Bahrrt...
your cost estimates include PROJECTED costs for the next 50 years according to Huffington Post and "the war's broader impact on the US economy". Those are not the costs of the war to date.
Thank you for your service to our country, but with all due respect, it doesnt give you any more right to voice your opinion than I have especially when you come up with these lame arguments using the left wing radical sources. Otherwise, you are creating classes of people with special privileges and I know how you lefties hate that concept...we are all supposed to be equal...and it all has to be fair...
JUST SAYING....
See that is the heart of the problem. When you know you are dead wrong. Especially here on OUR thread you WANT to be right.
Really, do everyone a BIG favor and go back to your side of the isle.
No hard feelings, really. But don't troll here, then pretend that YOU, my friend, are markedly indignant enough to be right.
It doesn't fly. Oh---just sayin.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
you know what has been said many times...imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I am glad that you feel the need to imitate me...
Using your iditiotic viewpoint and flawed reasoning, if the cost of oil had gone down instead of up, there might not have been any cost associated with these wars. Additionally, your desire to use projected costs for determining the "cost" of the war is as fictitious as the projected surplus under Pres. Clinton. Until it actually happens, it is not a cost.
One thing for sure, I am not your friend, nor do I have any desire to be...
JUST SAYING.....
Wow, did I hit a nerve, get under your skin? I don't desire you to be my friend either, but I did expect some form of respect.
But coming from someone who may have been always disrespectful to others thoughts, opinions, and facts and falsely stating things (as your canidate for President) there can't be any common ground on how this country should be run. Liberal brothers and sisters do. Trolls like you don't.
Like I stated earlier I simply used Google to find FACTUAL correct information. Nothing fictitious at all, but its hard to convince a Republicon of the truth even if it hit you hard in the head. I think most that read this knows the truth.
You are too daft to know that I am not imitating you, either. I almost feel embarrased for you.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!
Bahrrt...
One of the differences is that I dont let radical left wing hacks like yourself get under my skin. You want respect, but in your first ever post to me, you call me a troll and give me raspberry. You want respect...you lost that right off the get go when you acted like an impetulent child. I am only responding to you on the level you started...
You use Google facts that support your claim and I use Google facts to support my claim. The difference is that my facts are actual costs incurred to fight the war. Your "facts" include projected costs over the next 50 years and the estimated impact that the wars have had on the economy. In other words...all speculation. Once again, using the idiotic formula that you used, if the cost of a barrel of oil had dropped enough, we could say that this was didnt cost us anything....what a crock of liberal BS.
Wow...your liberal brothers and sisters agree with your idiotic views...what a surprise...the blind leading the blind...lemmings going off a cliff.
just saying...
Sullyman
Refer to post 6.1 and 6.14 for the truth about Obama's record. It speaks for itself unlike the other former President you didn't like.
So, the other comment...let me get this straight. You would rather vote for a vulture capitalist, lying, wining, flip-flopper that clearly wants to kill grandma and grandpa, double down on giving tax breaks for the rich and our backs while increasing our taxes, and can't be a decent foreign diplomat by insulting the Brits?
Can you please get a grip of reality. You vote for this guy and the cheesehead and they WILL, I promise, they will replay the same exact movie that played before this current POTUS.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Stormguy, you have long been insulting others and telling them to STFU way before I gave you a "little rasberry".
I attacked you specifically since you show no respect to ANYONE! And you deserve it.
The Afganistan War to date is just over 10 years. Who the hell would project a war for 50 years? You make yourself look and sound pathetic, man!
Now troll somewhere else.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Another big lie, and I suppose Rommey's supporter will have to find out the hard way to realize that he cares only about those that fall in his income bracket. It's like dying in order to find out if there is a heaven or an hell. You've got a candiate that refuses to release no more than 2-years of his income taxes, why? If nothing to hide and returns were completed by the law, what is there to hide? Republicans have not care or concern for people who are elderly, middle class, and poor. But, to lie to get in that oval office is shameful. I pray that the Medicare issue comes up during the debate, and the tax returns.
Grandma - why is Obama hiding his college transcripts from Columbia and Harvard? Most think it is because he got in through Affirmative Action and had poor grades. He even wrote a letter, (poorly written) to the Harvard Law Review defending Affirmative Action.
By his own accounts he was not a hard working student at Occidental, yet he managed to get into Columbia and Harvard.
This talk about Governor Romney's tax returns is a red herring because Obama can't run on his failed policies!
Here we go again with Oily Titz and her the proof is in Obama's school records bull@!$%# thought up in the mind of a delusional Russian, really sully your are repeating what a Russian claims is fact.
Sully you know who thinks that crap? You and your Republicons. You're not focusing on the benefit of the country, you would rather conject, like Trump's birther fantasies, that he got into college questionably?
Wow, what next, he crucified Jesus?
He wrote a letter confirming AA. At that time how many people were doing the same?
He is a professor of law, troll. Romney couldn't hold a candle to this POTUS, for the record.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
You tv anchors on MSNBC are doing a good job of covering these secondary issues but you simply must get back on track and pin Obama and Romney down on their specific plans to create good, well-paying jobs with benefits.
Yes of course !! We must talk about GOP obstructionism being done specifically to keep President Obama from passing bills that would create jobs that Robme Hood and his Criminal Cronies have sent over sees.
Millions of people out of jobs just to keep ONE MAN from doing his job !
You're kind of people disgust me.
Hope...you are a typical blind left wing Zealot who is so blinded by the hatred you have that you cant even acknowledge any degree of responsibility for your side creating a portion of the mess we are in. Jerry very clearly calls out the need for BOTH candidates to be held accountable.
You disgust me...
just saying...
Hahahahaha! Good luck pinning Romney down on his plans! Heard any lately? It's 80 days till the election! Does anybody know what he stands for? Anybody?
Its okay Crhis. he was looking in the mirror when he got disgusted. Oooooooooooooooo . . . how creepy for him !!
Chris robmehood hopes to rob from the poor and give to him, thats his whole plan.
Sullyman: You are the one that needs the math lesson. Remember the trillion dollar budget deficits got started because of GOP supply side economics under George Bush? The two wars, the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, the Medicare Part D Prescription drug bills and the 2008 big bank bailouts were all paid for by deficit spending and borrowing money from China. Your man Paul Ryan voted "yes" for all of this. Bush came into office with a $150 billion budget surplus and a $5 trillion national debt. By fiscal year 2010, Bush left President Obama a $1.3 trillion budget deficit with an national debt that was at $11 trillion. Worse than this the shooting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had created long term costs of $4 trillion. Plus the Bush tax cuts still made budget deficits worse during most of the Obama administration. Go to the Center for Budget Policy Priorities website and you will find many articles concerning the budget deficits being driven by the two wars, the Bush tax cuts and the 2008 Financial crisis bailout created more deficit spending under Obama's first term. Look at the article I have listed below and go down about half way and you will see in big black headings: "Bush Tax Cuts and War Costs, Do Lasting Harm to Budget Outlook."
Source: Kathy Ruffing and James Horney. 2010. "Critics Still Wrong on What's Driving Deficits in Coming Years." Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. "...www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036."
You are the RNC troll who fails to answer questions. Stop telling me to do the math and you need to start answering my question about replacing the ACA with a comparable GOP health insurance plan. We still do not have a GOP health insurance plan for 50 million uninsured. You bitch, howl, and complain about President Obama's Affordable Care Act but your GOP's solution is where or what for health care? Little children on the playground bitch and moan about problems while real leaders like President Obama come up with solutions to help 30 million uninsured Americans obtain affordable health care. Your GOP solutions are where or what on health care or are all you conservative swine intellectually brain dead?
Exactly Rex !
The Reich-Wing troll come here and have hissy fits about fact and sources but they NEVER provide them !
Just like the Vulture Capitalists they support. Lie, cheat and steal to get what you want !
Rex and Hope - did you read my post "You seem to think because I don't support Obama I supported Bush. I didn't suppot either and consider them both bad presidents"
Obviously not. But you blindly follow Obama because you didn't like Bush.
Rex, you really need to get it through your befuddled brain that we cannot "help 30 million uninsured Americans obtain affordable health care" because we are broke.
What we need is a president that can stop the bleeding not keep on blindly spending like Obama
Sullyman. Give it up. You are a Reich-Wing Troll and you have NO credibility here.
Hope - all you do is post idiotic replies to people who come here to challenge the left-wing lies perpetuated by Ed and the rest of the commentators on MSNBC.
Your 'sez you' replies make you the one with no credibility, (or intelligence).
sully if you support robmehood then you are supporting GWB because robmehood is going to use GWB policies.
Sully: Go read the CBPP article that I posted. How is that GOP health care plan coming along? I don't seem to see any GOP health insurance plan anywhere on this blog or anywhere else in the country. But you conservatives are really hellbent on repealing the ACA. We were always taught that if you are going to bitch and complain about something you needed to come up with a better solution to replace what you are complaining about. Evidently for you this is an insurmountable feat of intellectual prowess far beyond your limited capabilities. While you conservatives dither, 45,000 uninsured Americans die from treatable conditions. Does the GOP care about human life or corporate profits and tax cuts only?
sully,
your post #16.2-
but you blindly follow Obama because you didn't like bush
we are not blindly following President Obama because we hated bush.
if you want an example of "blindly follow", you might want to look at paul ryan (and the rest of the repub party in washington) who blindly voted for everything bush wanted. now being touted as a "fiscal conservative", he voted for the 2 wars, medicare part d, no child left behind, and the tax cuts that were signed into law the same month (march, 2003) bush invaded iraq.
under the "annointment" (supreme court, 2000) of w. bush, the repubs partisanly and blindly followed w. bush WITH PLEASURE. they blindly followed and voted with and LOVED EVERYTHING THEIR LEADER TOLD THEM TO LOVE.
"deficits don't matter" (bush administration, reagan).
as has been proven, the only time repubs care about deficits is when a democrat holds the office of the Presidency. repubs LIKE to spend money, and they LIKE HOW THEY SPEND IT.
repubs are mostly responsible for the financial crisis we find ourselves in, and true to form, they are now blaming the democratic party, after they blindly followed their leader, w. bush. WHAT MORE PROOF DO WE NEED?
None. They aren't going to read them, anyway.
FACT....the largest deficit in a Bush budge was approximately $550 billion. Trillion dollar deficits in our budget did not begin until Obama was president and the DEMOCRATS had control over the HOR.
Just saying...
Fact you lie capt re reg that is the only fact when it comes to your posts.
Stormguy
Fact? Really? LMAO!
"Economist Mike Kimel notes that the five fomer Democratic Presidents (Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Lyndon B. Johnson, John F. Kennedy, and Harry S. Truman) all reduced public debt as a share of GDP, while the last four Republican Presidens (GWB, GHWB, Ronald Reagan, and Gerald Ford) all oversaw an increase in the country's indebtedness."
I sited this from Wikipedia for crying out loud. There is more Republicon troll BM's on this thread than I have seen in sometime. It's laughable.
We should remind ourselves that the American Jobs Act was asked for by President Obama back in August, 2011. The American Jobs Act would have saved public sector jobs or created construction jobs for infrastructure for a total of at least 2 million jobs. The GOP House failed to pass this desperately needed jobs bills because small tax increases for millionaires and billionaires were unacceptable to them. So much for the GOP caring about the country. GOP swine care only about the plutocrats and their continued coddling. Jobs for middle class people matter not to the conservatives.
Fast forward to July, 2012 and the GOP Senate filibustered the Small Business Tax Credit bill that economists said would have created one million jobs. We can do the arithmetic and three million jobs were lost due to GOP obstructionism. The GOP campaigned in 2010 on "jobs, jobs, and more jobs." President Obama asked for these common sense jobs bills and the GOP balked at passing them in both chambers of the Congress.
Speaker Boehner failed to have the House take up the Farm Bill after it was passed in the Senate. The Tea Party radicals want deep cuts in the SNAP/Food Stamp program that 47 million Americans need to buy food for their families. Most of the food stamps go to help feed children or the elderly. Congressman Ryan is one of the Congressman in the House that is failing to support the Farm Bill because right winged ideology is more important than doing the nation's business. Never mind that farmers and ranchers stricken by drought are facing financial ruin while the Farm Bill languishes. Congressman Ryan has more important things to do at the Iowa state fair than talk about public policy issues like the Farm Bill.
Why does the GOP want to sabotage the United States economy? Routine business like the Farm Bill needed to be passed before the August break because eight days in September could prove insufficient. Why did the GOP House go home to campaign without the Farm Bill going to President Obama's desk for signature? Shame on Republicans for this disgrace and failure. The House also has many issues that it must tend to even after the election such as the fiscal cliff that the newswires have been talking about. So will any Farm Bill be passed this year at all? Good question? I am sure the Midwestern bankers, farmers, ranchers, and agribusiness corporations would all like to know too because critical decision impacting our food supply depend on the Farm Bill getting passed. President Obama asked for the Farm Bill to be on his desk before the August recess. He asked for this many months ago but the GOP House has failed yet again to do the nation's critical business because Tea Party politics are more important than farmers or ranchers stricken by the worst drought since the Dust Bowl years. If President Eisenhower today could look at the radical right winged GOP, he would throw up in total disgust because with Ike the country always came first, political party second. Today's conservatives have this completely backwards.
It's a shame when people running for office use their mothers to sell the lies coming out of their mouths about they won't cut Medicare. In Florida Rick Scott used his mother and his business had the highest Medicare fraud ever and this idiot got elected. Now what these politicians want to do is cut Medicare, but their mothers are taken care of because they can afford it. What happens to the rest of our mothers who depend on Medicare or Medicaid? Politicians leave your mothers out of it, because you can take care of them!!!! You should be ashamed of using your mothers using false information to get elected. You are trying to fool seniors and that is just wrong on many levels.
It is so pathetic. And exactly who do they think is falling for that B.S. ? Oh, right. The brainwashed working class Republicans who select against their survival by supporting them. So pathetic.
Kate - I think Paul Ryan's budget plan would go far to help Medicare. This is a program that is already going broke.
Of course the democrats apposed it. They couldn't stand the idea of a Republican budget plan that worked when they haven't passed a budget in three years
By electing Romney/Ryan we give senior citizens the chance to continue to have Medicare.
Ryan's Medicare Plan-Let all the old people die! Then all that's left are healthy young people that don't need healthcare! Everybody's healthy!
Another idiotic reply by SadChris. My my SadChris you and Hope must get headaches trying to think this stuff up!
Well we know you will never get a headache from thinking sully, you only repeat Drudge.
Thinking doesn't hurt me the way it does you, sullen. That's why you don't do it.
Typical replies by two of the biggest close minded people on this site.
UnReal and Sullen.
Sullyman: How is that GOP health care plan coming along? You bitch and complain about President Obama's ACA but you conservatives come up with no health care plan of your own while 50 million people are uninsured. You conservatives demand to repeal the ACA, well by God I demand from you a replacement GOP health care plan that provides 50 million uninsured with affordable health insurance? You are a little yellow coward for failing to come up with your own GOP health care plan, let alone how to pay for one. President Obama is real leader while you GOP swine sit by and let 45,000 uninsured Americans die from treatable conditions. The GOP needs to burn in hell. Paul Ryan has good government health care for his family so why can we not have health care for 50 million uninsured Americans? We can afford trillions of dollars for tax cuts for the rich and $4 trillion long term for Iraq and Afghanistan but we can not afford to take care of our 50 million uninsured? Sounds like GOP hogwash to me.
It's interesting how so many are attacking the GOP health plan, yet you say the GOP has no health plan. ??
Just because the GOP call it a plan doesn't make it a plan, a real plan has details the GOP plan has talking points which don't require details.
Their health plan is getting rid of the ACA. That's the only plan they have.
Just a thought..... Ref the accusations that the Repubs stole from the middle class, but I seem to remember that up untill 1996 Congress was controlled for the previous fourty or so years by the Dems.. In that time, Congress stole every nickle that went into the SSA trust fund. NOW SSA is empty. They were nice enough however to leave a bunch of IOUs.
A lie made up by the GOP who claim SSA will be broke by 2030 or sooner depending on their gloom and doom predictions based on yesterdays economy.
The whole point is that the GOP does not have a feasible health care plan. Richard Nixon came up with a Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan in 1972 that relied mostly on an employer mandate and expanded Medicare and Medicaid coverage to get near universal coverage. Barrack Obama passed Richard Nixon's and Mitt Romney's health care plan signed into law in 2010 only the individual mandate came from more recent Republicans like Senator Bob Dole along with others. I do not remember anyone in 1972 calling Richard Nixon a "socialist" because of his mandates for employers to provide health insurance. I think this is because many Republicans in 1972 cared more about their country first and party politics later. Today's radical GOP only cares about corporate special interests that buy their way through the election process by providing them with deregulation, tax cuts, and other goodies to stay in power while 45,000 uninsured Americans die from treatable conditions. The 45,000 deaths figure comes from a Harvard Medical School Study. Facts, suck for conservative/Tea Party conservatives don't you think?
It's claims like this that make Dems look as stupid as NeoCons.
Ryan's budget won't affect Medicare for 10 years, and by then, OTHER s*&t will have happened and things will be different.
Plus, Romney/Ryan WON'T get elected in any case!
Its posts like this that makes us know that tea bagged republicans don't want to talk about the facts of the people they support so they whine about democrats talking about their candidates faults.
Here's a fact.... 726 billion dollars taken from medicare to pay for ObamaCare. I wonder how many seniors will die over that one?
Heres another fact that 700 billion is not going into Robmehoods or the Koch brothers pockets. I wonder how many brain cells are going to die before davey learns that his drudge report repeats don't work on Ed's blog.
Hopefully, ALL OF THEM.
LMAO...LMAO.....Here we go again, NBC is right on que......."seniors would die".....what's next?.....Paul Ryan is a racist, homophobe and wants seniors to live on the street in a cardboard box eating a can of pork and beans. LMAO.
Nope Ryan is Ayn Rands unwanted love child.
Here's an idea, Mr President........give us a specific plan instead of an idealistic vision which only includes taxing the rich. Move on Mr President, America needs something more, let's hear a new idea!
Heres an ideal stop thinking your getting any useful information from free republic.
New idea? Oh....you must mean from Etch-A-Sketch, and his new pick Ryan the Hottie?
You are certainly right. America does need more, but not from Republicons!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
45,000 uninsured Americans are dying from treatable conditions. Care to try and refute the Harvard Medical School Study? Where is that GOP health care plan? All that matters to conservatives are corporate health insurance profits and kickbacks in the form of tax cuts for those same health insurance companies. Whatever happened to caring about the country and helping 50 million uninsured? The GOP is nothing but a pathetic bunch of obstructionists. Shame on the GOP who are responsible for the deaths of 45,000 Americans annually. This would never happen in Europe where I was stationed for years when in the service. Germany takes care of their people with health care. Germany also has a better economy than America so the Germans know how to make capitalism work for the common person and German businessmen still make lots of money. Are Germans smarter than American conservatives like Romney/Ryan? No Germans die from being untreated for medical care, everyone is covered and they pay half what we pay here per capita. Facts really suck for conservatives don't they?
45,000 uninsured Americans are dying from treatable conditions.
Then tell those 45,000 people to go to the hospital.
Hospitlas can not refuse treatment no mater what, it's the law.
If you have no money no insurance the hospitla stll has to treat you it's the law.
XEP: Your ignorance of European health care is almost as baffling as your offering no solutions to real problems. Germans emphasize getting the Germans are mortal and will eventually perish like humans everywhere but at least the German hospital does every reasonable and decent thing to keep patients alive. No one in Germany gets asked for their insurance company when they are sick. When can have a debate about Europe if you like because I lived in Europe for four years and know pretty well. German medicine emphasizes family care providers that push for regular check ups and treatments. This family care provider is the key for British, French, German and Scandinavian countries keeping their costs down.
Our awful American health care system puts 50 million uninsured at risk everyday. If you don't have insurance coverage they kick you out of the ER as fast as possible but with a huge bill too. Most of the 45,000 who die from being uninsured have no health insurance. So our number of uninsured is what it is: an American disgrace and failure on an unprecedented scale. No other European country would tolerate what we do in this country with our uninsured. This is why for the 50 million uninsured the American health care system is nothing but a source of nightmare and disaster waiting to happen. You can go see the doctor and go bankrupt or you can not see the doctor and die from lack of treatment. The saddest part is that most of these people tend to work full time too.
But Republicons would tell you that is true capitalism. The fabric of our free enterprise system. Really, it's okay! It's how it's supposed to be. *eyeroll*
I work as a healthcare worker and know first hand how 37th in the world we are in our care. I see it everyday.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
"Now we have a problem. You've put quite a dent in our lifestyle'. By that 'lil 'ol four percent Rufus?....Maybe you're not as rich as you think you are. And I'm being kind.
Holycrap, your post shows for a fact what morons you ppl are. Let'em get treated at the hospital? LOL...You do know that Emergency room care is the most expensive healthcare there is don't you? And who pays for it? Why you and I dumbass! You ppl whine constantly about 'paying for other ppl' yet you come up with a plan like this....Unbelievable.
Figures you would agree with holycrap Rufus.
Stupidity is the teabaggers only defense.
HEY GIRL,
Vote for me and it will be the last choice you will ever have to make
XO P. Ryan
Vulture
Vochers
Vampires.....
They want your blood.