So what did those documents on Bain Capital's offshore tax schemes, posted by Gawker Thursday, really tell us? There was no smoking gun, but tax expert David Cay Johnston of Reuters joined The Last Word to explain that they add to the evidence that Mitt Romney is pulling out all the stops to lower his tax bill.
"They're very revealing that Romney and Bain are doing everything they can to avoid and delay taxes, particularly the low 15% tax on dividends," Johnston told Lawrence O'Donnell.
A bipartisan 2008 Senate report concluded it's an "open secret that there's tax avoidance going on, through a particular kind of vehicle used through the Cayman Islands and elsewhere," Johnston recounted. "And these audits Gawker got suggest strongly that that's exactly what they've been doing."
"If Romney would avoid a 15% tax, what else would he try to avoid?," Johnston asked. "That's a pretty low tax."
In a new interview with Parade magazine, Romney claims he has avoided releasing his tax returns because he doesnt want to reveal information about the charitable contributions he's made to the Mormon church.
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Too shady a character to EVER be TRUSTED in my opinion...he seems to be plain GREEDY and mean. The Romneys just give me the creepy feeling they are slippery and deceitful and smarmy money grubbers. UGH! I could never vote for anyone I have those deeply felt , instinctive feelings about. .... And I have always been a VERY GOOD judge of character.
I noticed months ago that Mittens has a very bad habit of lying about nearly everything. He denies saying or doing something, but then the actual footage is produced. I have no faith in him at all as president of our country. It was obvious when he went to London last month that he's lacking in diplomatic skills. I've always listened to my gut, and my gut says that he is not the person we should elect for president. At least Obama has a clue about the working poor and working middle class. I will vote for him again.
If any voters trust this guy, they will wind up like the thousands of people he Downsized, and Cheated while he was at Bain Capital, they will work longer and harder and never make progress, and he'll do the same to Soc Security and Medicare as he did with the Pensions/ Profit Sharing in the private sector.... VOTE DEM... Let's Keep Moving FORWARD!!!
rob, chicago....it's not "they" but "we will wind up...etc. The stakes are so high. I bet even "ole mitt" never saw this coming.
willard "mr. deceit" thinks he can just slink into the White house in 'stealth' mode. Like a snake in the grass.
I hope the American people are smarter than to let that happen.
I am.
At this point I think that it is better to address this excessive tax avoidance issue, and the question of ethics, rather that assuming that we can guess how much that the Romney's have in the Cayman Islands. On the other hand, the flip-flops over his promotions, then distancing from, his giving, to his church, are fully worthy of attack. It is also a reflection of his mindset on honesty and that is a critical area for evaluation.
What a man this Romney is. He was the finanial officer for Marriott when it got nailed for tax fraud. They pay a little fine and it's back to the Caymans with another 20mil. This man will take any position he deems expediant. His only goal the White House. It seems awfully strange that a man of such great wealth would cowtow to the fringe players on the far end of the teapublican party. I can only guess that it has to do with getting his off shore money on shore without having to pay the taxes due. He took full advantage of the last tax amnesty, and immediately returned to his off shore stashing. In the end I can only assume he feels he should not have to pay taxes at all.
I am an ordinary average middle class American married with a family. I can not remember a time in my life when my taxes were never less than around 35% of my income, sometimes I am sure that this amount went even a little higher. I am going to make a pretty safe bet that most people in the U.S. are paying a good 30% in taxes too. Remember, its not just federal income taxes and federal payroll taxes like Social Security and Medicare, and unemployment insurance, there are state income taxes, state sales taxes, state mandated fees for automobile licenses and registration. Own a boat, trailer, or motorcycle? You guessed it you pay licenses and possibly registration for a motorized vehicle. We have to remember too that local property taxes really dig into middle class people. So when you add everything up including all the local fees, special assessments on property, and even municipal sales taxes most middle class people are paying a good 35% to 40% of their income in taxes. We should also call health insurance premiums and college tuition rising at double digit rates a form of tax because have you ever tried raising a family without health insurance? Most people at least help their kids with college. I am not really complaining about any of this because I believe that this is just the price of civilization and I tend to like civilization. Chaos and anarchy after the Persian Gulf War experience are not my thing, peace and order are.
I guess what gets me about Mitt Romney is that he is special and only pays 13% or as some claim considerably less because its hidden in tax shelters and earned as capital gains which is taxed at only 15%. The issue here is it is a whole lot different world to have to pay 35% or more taxes if you earn $50k or less annually than it is to pay 13% taxes on $20 million. Its even more of a stark contrast when you have others who depend on you to live on what's left of that $50k after 35% is taken out for taxes. If Mitt Romney had paid only 13% or less taxes on $20 million but invested all of his money in American companies that produced decent paying jobs for Americans here at home I really would not care. But when Mitt Romney keeps his money overseas in the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, and Switzerland he obviously only cares about avoiding the tax liability of the IRS and not creating jobs in America. We can only assume from Romney's reluctance to release his tax returns that he is more concerned with giving more tax cuts to the top one percent of households than creating jobs here in America for a 150 million ordinary Americans who live here on $50k or less per year. Some how all this arithmetic says that Romney/Ryan policies are all about creating a plutocracy rather than middle class jobs here in America.
Rex, President-Elect Romney paid 13% in Federal Income Taxes only. If you paid 35% in Federal Income Taxes, then you:
1) are NOT "middle-class" since you are making over $379,000 per year
2) Need to hire an accountant to help you with your taxes so that you can take advantage of tax loopholes to reduce you tax liability each year, OR
3) you do NOT have the first clue as to what you are talking about.
There is nothing wrong with what President-Elect Romney is doing. Taking advantage of tax loopholes and paying the least amount of taxes possible is totally legal. Democrats do it all the time. Have you seen Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid's tax returns??? NO!!! Also, if President-Elect Romney paid 13% in Federal Income Taxes and 10% to charity on $20 million of income, that is $2.6 million in taxes and $2 million to charity for one year. I bet all the people griping on here will never pay $2.6 million in taxes in their entire life. By the way, I am "middle-class" as my wife and I make less than $100,000 per annum.
*Annum means year for all you dumb liberals who have no idea about taxes.
Mike Lambeau: Stop being such and idiot and a fool. I clearly wrote out that I was talking about the total taxes that middle class people have to pay. Around 35% to 40% is really quite standard. Many taxes and fees are hidden like special assessments on property taxes. There are no deductions for gasoline excise taxes or vehicle registration. You get no deductions for local property taxes. There are no deductions for federal pay roll taxes such as Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment insurance and other mandated insurance programs that vary from state to state. So you explain to me how hiring an accountant will get you out of paying these state and local taxes, fees, and special assessments on your property?
You have missed my entire point because you did not read what I wrote before putting your own spin on things. I am talking about total taxes for middle class people: federal income taxes, federal payroll taxes, state income taxes, state licenses and fees, state motor vehicle registration, local sales taxes, local property taxes, local special assessments on property taxes, and local fees for things like the garbage dump and other fees associated with living in the United States. Yeah dude middle class people people pay for infrastructure and local city services, schools, police, fire, and emergency medical services. The rich do not pay for this, the middle class and poor working classes pay for all of this stuff. Don't forget this either because without a strong middle class with decent paying jobs the whole damn system grinds to a halt like it did in 1929 and again in 2008.
XEP: Jerry the drunk: You are acting like a stupid dolt of a person which for you is normal. I see you are your spiteful and miserable self again today. You are the lying idiot. I am not in the 35% federal income tax bracket what I said was that most middle class people pay roughly 35% to 40% of their income in total taxes that consist of federal income taxes, federal payroll taxes such as Medicare and Social Security, state income taxes, state sales taxes, licenses, fees, and local property taxes, and local sales taxes etc. These will vary from state to state. What you need to remember little Jerry boy is that it is the hard working American families that pay for schools, local infrastructure, state services, and for state and local employees such as police, fire, teachers, and city workers. Rich people do not pay for this local and state government stuff the middle class pay for all of this. So the bottom line is if you want a decent country we need to make sure we invest in the middle class and grow the country out from the middle instead of believing in supply side fairy dust.
Mitt and Ann Romney would never mingle socially with 99.9% of the people on their campaign. They probably feel that they have been carried away by the Wizard of Oz goblins and dropped on Homer's front lawn in Springfield. When they lose this election they are truly going to HATE the American people. They can barely hide their contempt now. This used to be called "political baptism by fire" Today, I call it "hair on fire slow crawl across red hot coals wrapped in razor wire" political education. REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hate the American people. Man. I love you crazy Americans. BON CHANCE
the people who vote for romney really are people who don't even like him. they are voting for him because they hate obama. these people would vote for the scum of the earth before giving obama a chance to do the right thing. GOD forgive these people.
OH MY GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!! well i'm not really surprised with this news, after all it is ROBME, but just how long did he think that this was going to stay hidden? did he really think THE AMERICAN PEOPLE would never find out he was a shady tax evader? he has been giving clues all along. boy what a dumbass mutt. you got to love social media now days.
If this is the best you have now, it's time for yet another doctored tape. Maybe while you're at it you can doctor one to actually make Obama sound pro-American.
What's this? A new Teabot showing up for the late shift?
One of the James O'Keefe crowd admitting tapes were doctored? We knew that... The juvenile delinquent already doesn't dare show his set foot in New Hampshire...
The President already sounds plenty pro-American to those who have their receivers tuned correctly.
Once is enough, Dianne. And Mitt's fortune is estimated at around 250 million, far more than any individual who's ever run for the presidency.
You hurt "our message" when you repeat yourself along with the inaccuracy (he was a Stake President after being a bishop).
There are very bright people who come here (despite what a certain poster thinks), and you only insult our intelligence with needless repetition.
If you're not familiar with the Mormon church, they mandate that active members pay 10% tithing. They will find out your income if you don't disclose and they will bill you. How many Romney supporters don't know anything about this church? They control county and state governments in the western U.S. and they want to control our country. Make sure you know what you're voting for.
Sheesh, if you don't know much about the LDS Church, don't pretend you do. Frankly, you look more like a "deep cover operative" for the Romney camp trying to make us look stupid than anyone legitimate. And if you're not with Romney, quit acting and talking crazy or you're going to wind up crazy and not know it.
Mormon tithing is optional, but with strong "social pressures" to keep one's recommend current. They won't invade your bank accounts or such to check your income, but if you apply for church welfare, you can expect the bishopric to micro-manage your life for a time...
And the "control" of LDS, Inc. in Utah is mostly of the "group think" variety and not an active conspiracy. Thirty years ago, with Ezra Taft Benson moving towards church leadership and W. Cleon Skousen teaching religion at Brigham Young, the church "took a hard right turn" with many embracing what are recognized today as "Tea Party Ideals." There is not absolute uniformity, however, as Harry Reid has demonstrated...
There is, nevertheless, a "cult of secrecy" that can be understood by looking at the dynamics of "family dysfunction" with a "look good at any cost mentality" and a "don't talk, don't trust, don't make waves" mentality. Elephant in the living room stuff, in other words...
I'll refer those interested to my friend Sue Emmett's interviews over on HuffPo for more insight on this subject (and particularly, an in-depth view from a woman's perspective).
As the late Edward Abbey noted about Mormonism, nothing that ridiculous could be all bad...
If one sticks to objective and unbiased truth, one won't wind up an easy target for charges of inaccuracy and hyperbole.
I once rented a room in a house owned by a Mormon lady and I remember how she'd jump up and scurry around hiding stuff when she saw her church leader pull up to her house to see why she hadn't been to church and tithed lately. She'd write out a check on the spot.
My mom is a tax expert too.
I've
I've been in business for decades and I have to work with this kind of businessperson all the time. They are selfish, uncaring and arrogant. I can't stand them. And I'd never vote for one.
Of course, Gawker is the pot calling the kettle black here, as they are 100% headquartered in the Cayman Islands, presumably as a tax dodge.
But if you actually read their detailed, investigative report on the Romney's Blind Trust holdings, instead of just the paraphrased few sentances above and "some tax experts" ideas about tax avoidance, you will find out that only 2.5% of the Romney's million are invested as diversifications and enhanced income opportunities in high yield funds in the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc. And a small amount held as a diversification of their cash and cash equivalents, and a hedge against a depreciating dollar in a Swiss Bank Account. As Romney stated months ago, the Romney's financial advisors in control of the Blind Trusts tell them these are usefull diversification instruments, first and foremost, and meant to gain some higher income.
My IRA looks very similar. My Fidelity,Inc. common mutual funds hold small percentages also in these kinds of high income opportunities in the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, and Luxomburg, along with primarily a large number of mostly US Corporation stocks and bonds, and Real Estate Investment Trusts. I also hold shares in The Permanent Fund (of Sn Antonio, TX) that invests in Growth and Income Stocks of US and International Corporations, Bonds, and Precious Metals bullion and mining company stocks; but also a goodly amount of Swiss Franks, for diversification from the US dollar. And I hold shares in the The Central Fund of Canada, which buys gold and silver bullion and coins with Canadian Loonies, and holds that gold and silver in Bank Vaults in Canada. Diversification, and not keeping all of ones nest eggs in one basket, folks!
And there is nothing unusual, shady, dark and secretive, or illegal in any of that. Anyone can do it, you don't have to be a millionaire.
Maybe I can divert my food stamp money there.
How could anybody identify with this scum bag as being better for the economy. The only economic issues he is astute in are his own . It is as simple as the nose on his face. I don't give two @!$%#s about any individual who wants to downplay this idiots reluctance to release his tax returns. If a person wants to take a run as the leader of the free world then his life has to become an open book. Somebody ought to throw the book at this @!$%# head. Wake up RED states and wipe the trickle down juice out of your eyes. The economy will NEVER improve until some of the wealth is redistributed to the other 90 odd percent of this population. They won't be happy until all your children are asking [ Do you want fries with your meal? ] I can't wait until you reach your golden years and start shopping for insurance with your worthless Ryan golden ticket .Who in the hell do you think is going to sell you reasonable insurance when one foot is on the banana peel and the other is hanging over the six foot hole. Obama is not ideal but you can't make perfume out of dog crap with these two self serving pieces of toilet paper on your shoe
Great imagery, Gary! Trickle down juice in the eyes...
25% of seniors under Medicqre (those with Medicare Advantage policies that they have to give up due to ObamaCare as he robs the savings that he believes that will engender from the Medicare Trust Fund to use for Medicaid expansion and voucher subsidies to midde class individuals and families for his Washinton, DC all the bells and whistles expensive health insurance policies the federal govenment will be forcing down their throats and their employers throats).
Sort of makes a lie of your ignorant argument Gary!
It took Romney 6 months to come up with that excuse?
I just noted something. Mitt Romney said in an interview that Lawrence quoted from Parade Magazine -
" Parade: Do you tithe on a regular basis?
Romney: Yes, I've given away 10% of what I earned, pretax."
Hold on there Tonto. In other words Romney donates to his church as a tax deduction, not out of faith. No wonder people don't like him. The rest of us peons usually drop money in the offering plate with cash from our last paycheck - AFTER TAXES!
I'm starting to get the picture now. Unlike his father George Romney, Mitt's tax returns probably show him taking advantage of the MAXIMUM number of deductions and loopholes - donating to charity with pretax money, operating with cash from the Cayman Islands, and taking little or no payroll salary. For a guy who spent no time in the military, skimping on taxes sure makes him look unpatriotic for paying taxes is the LEAST you can do if you did not serve.
The psychology of the faithful is complicated, Christopher, and despite a lifetime among them including working for and with many, I won't pretend to have all the nuances. My friend, Steve Benson, a Pulitzer Prize winning political cartoonist who created a small uproar when he left the church, coined a phrase that pretty much summed things up, "pray, pay, obey." Steve's grandfather was Ezra Taft Benson, LDS President and Sec'y of Agriculture during the Eisenhower Administration.
They are schooled in this culture and lifestyle from a young age, much more so with the "correlation" of the last 30 years, and the result is that "obvious mask" we see in Mitt-for-brains... Large areas of conflict are "relegated to the unconscious," to use a Freudian term, and it creates the façade of phoniness that is readily apparent. As in all things, the individual is a "blend" of those elements, but Mormons are always trying to put their best foot forward and keep the closet door locked on their skeletons.
That makes some of them "mean." Romney is one... He's always looking for a dog to kick when he thinks he can get away with it...
Seems to me that since 2003 the capital gains and divident tax rates have been set at a maximum of 20%, and that is money that has already been taxed as corporate profits to the tune of 35%. And yes, Romney drew no salary at all when he worked so hard to turnaround the failing Salt Lake City Olympics, and as Governor of Massachusetts, Tracy!
Better stop with the slanderous dog references, as your candidate, Indonesian raised Obama, is a known dog eater, by his own self report, Cab Driver.
This is nuts. Romney wants to be President yet refuses to play by the same rules for all Americans. This man is a tax avoider. I guess Romney believes the American people will vote for him even if he refuses to show his taxes. Romney new explanation will not fly as well, as to why he will not release the tax returns. Guess what buddy, when you are running for the highest position in America's politics, transparency is a must. Sorry, it will not work.
HelloDock.... Romney is a pampered CEO type, "I get what I want, when I want".
Head of the National Teachers Union, $488,000 a year salary, and $60,000 in associated benefits annually.And she is given a primetime speakers spot at Obama's coronation for his campaign for a incredible second term, Antha!
Its crazy that everyone is getting all excited about something that is legal ,we should change the tax law . Flat tax not allow them to do this . Of course our leaders wont be able to do the same thing, and it wont let them bring up the fact half of Obamas cabinet get in trouble for for cheating not paying their taxes ,which IS against the law , A flat tax will fix all this.
here's one even better.How about No tax..I stay in Alaska,,we pay no tax,,and we are doing just fine..We pay the lowest gas tax in the country,but yet,have one of the nations highest gas prices.Which is a whole other issue that don't make since,that i wont go into.Point being,,flat tax,no tax.high tax,middle class is the only ones being affected in a negative way,and Romney will make that situation worst,for the middle class,that he claims to be a part of.At least that what his taxes show he claims.
Did you mean like Timothy Geithner, head of the NY Federal Reserve tapped by Obama to be his Treasury Secretary, who owed back taxes assed after being audited by the the IRS before he could take office, fila?
Breaking news from Michigan... Romney makes "Birther Joke."
"No one's ever asked to see my birth certificate."
The man is utterly tone deaf.
You need to raise your standards on what constitutes wit...
Gee, and you were just yuking it up over Obama's "lame brain Shamus joke" last week, along with your idols Chris Mathews and Larry O'Donnell, Cab Driver.
"What's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander", don't you know?
Yuk, Yuk, Yuk!
WRONG!!!Romney is wrong for this country.What does it say about his policy,when he would raise Taxes on the middle class,which he claimed to be a part of,the 'working class",,but not want to show his own taxes?Wait even better,,he belives in small government,meanwhile,running for the highest chair in Government..Romney is a flip-flopper.His words and actions dont match up,,nothing that comes out of his mouth makes any since..Who in there right mind that listens to him speak,,,could vote for him?
Raise taxes on the Middle Class? By reforming the income tax code to a two tier system of 10% and 25%?. Or are you taking about the nearly 50% of all earned income tax filers that don't pay any taxes at all in our country? It is those people that want's all the social spending programs from the federal government is it not, fila?
This is THE MOST disingenuous and deceitful man to ever attempt a run at the White House. I see him being responsible for mass deaths both in the civilian population and the armed forces. Mitt Romney is the antithesis of the Martin Sheen character in "The Dead Zone" proclaiming to his Secretary of State "Put your God damned hand on the screen or I'll cut it off and put it on for you!" and then saying to his many approaching panicked aides "The missiles are flying men, God Bless us and God Bless America!"
Obviously Hysterical, just like the picture you chose as your Avatar, Davis D.
Ok, be honest, the bussines profit, start to pick up however the big Ceo's wont make any move until they are sure who would win the election, if they hire people now the economy will improve very fast but what go to happen in January 2013, we all smart people if Obama is re elect some companies will bring their bussines back from outside, because they know that the labor is cheap but to bring to USA is a nightmare, for example I bouthg a container of bed linen, price was affordable,however you need to pay taxes for everything you need to wire the money, pay the difference from dollars to euro, pay the delivery from Europe to USA than if you do not a license to import you need to pay a broker to delivery to you property. So I believe next year and the next four more years will be good with Obama. Do not let people tell you the economy is bad with this Preasident because Republican make everything in their power to stop the economy back.
Geeze, what an econonically ignorant statement that is!
I said this afternoon I can believe Mitt Romney just said " No body asked for my birth certificate" we need to let him know, we do not care where he borned , we care about his taxes from 2002 - 2006, we know he is american, but we do not know if he is honest.
For sure he have 2007-2008 taxes because he want to be president so he made and we know he have 2010-2011 because he want to be president.
What he don't release more taxes? because he doesn't has, we deserve to know what type of President we will have, transparency is the Key. If he lie to american people now, what we expect in the future?
I know exactly why the Romney's won't release their tax returns...
In an interview in this Sunday's "Parade" magazine, the Romneys claim that they won't release their tax returns because they don't want people to see what they tithe to the mormon church, that it is a private matter between their family and church. But multiple times, in the past, both Mitt and Ann have openly stated that they give exactly ten percent to their church, as prescribed in the Bible. So, there should be nothing surprising about their tithing in releasing their tax returns.
You know what I think, though? I think they probably actually gave a lot LESS than ten percent to their church, and would be embarrassed to reveal that in releasing their tax returns.
Which all comes down to you want to see the Romneys tax returns so that you can look into their charitable giving and their church support, just as the Romneys stated, fool!
If you liberals had half a brain, you'd commit suicide, and spare us from your nonsense for evermore.