Moments after Paul Ryan's speech, Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin got into a fiesty and heated exchange with the MSNBC panel. Walker defended Ryan's misleading claim that Obama failed to save a Wisconsin auto plant, and even appeared to claim that for Wisconsin workers, the Obama administration's auto bailout hasn't been a success.
As you can guess, Rachel, Ed, Al and company didn't let him off the hook. Watch:
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Rachael finally had to cut your losses and end the "interview" when it became obvious you had LOST.
She is in way over her head.
It was hilarious to hear Ed say "The Washington Post" just today said it was a lie....shows he is not a fact checker and believes whatever he reads. Here are the facts; check them out yourselves:
2/12/08 Obama in Janesville said "this plant will be here for another hundred years" quote!
6/08 GM announce production would be stopped on medium-duty trucks by end of 2009
10/08 Obama repromised to keep Janesville plant open
12/08 GM idled prroduction of GM SUVs; medium truck production continued
4/09 four months after BO was inaugurated GM idled production of medium duty trucks
9/11 2 yrs after BO inauguration GM reiterates the plant is on stand by status
As of today, the plant has not been retooled to produce fuel efficient cars as BO promised.
Barrack Obama has not keep his promised to Janesville. He is the lier and not Ryan.
Good work....liberals will never admit how ignorant they are, even when presented with a nicely organized chronological list of facts which you have so graciously provided.
I thank you!
Right but I don't see liberals on right wing blogs trying to brag that they are intelligent. Keep it up and someday you might believe that you are smarter then a box of rocks.
wow, the lunatic right can sure rationalize. president obama wanted the plant to stay open, that's a fact. unfortunately for imbeciles who don't understand the us constitution, the president of the usa does not have the power to override the decisions of businesses.
potus does not have the power to set gas prices; he can't stop floods or droughts. he did not have the power to keep a plant open when a business decides to close it.
we know what the right would have done if president obama would have pressured gm to keep the plant open. oh yeah, we definitely know that since the right wing morons accused him of socializing the car industry.
but unfortunately for the terminally stupid there is no evidence that potus did any of the things they accused him of.
here's a question for the right wing idiots: would romney have kept the plant open if gm closed it if he were faced with the identical situation?
wow...now the left has gone from where he didn't promise to keep it open to the defense is...Obama didnt have the power to keep it open..
If back peddling was an Olympic event, I think the Democrats would win the gold medal...
just saying...
Seemed pretty clear (to anyone with half a brain, which is why liberals don't see it) that it was Gov. Walker that stuck it to Maddog, Ed, and Al. Didn't let him off the hook?!? Funny...not what happened even a little bit!! LOL!!!!
It was funny to see how fast the liberals were to call Ryan out on his story and it turns out that HE was RIGHT. Obama is so yesterday. He's tired and he's over and he's done.
Right because the guy republicans don't like is going to be able to convince 61% of white voters to vote for him. The only toast this year will be the toast tea bagged republicans put their crow on.
whom, how sad, devastated and confused will you be if in November ROmney wins???
Funny thing is Walker received more votes the 2nd time LOL.
Add to that the numours times rachel and ed have been prove to be total lies.
Just media hogs. What ever sells, they say it.
So what moocow reality is Walker got the same percent of people that voted for him the first time so your he got more votes the second time wasn't a big margin because the percentages remained the same. I notice you don't mention that Walker lost his rubber stamp congress, some victory moocow Walker won the vote but he lost the power.
One man or woman can not make change happen. Our government is not set up that way, and if it was, that one man or woman would be a dictator. Without cooperation from other branches of government (congress and judicial) a president has limited power. We must elect people in congress willing to workin a bi-partisan way to find solutions that hurt the least people. See what happens when they take civics classes out of education? This is another way to dumb down America.
What we see from Governor Walker and most of the GOP posters here on the thread is a common thread that consists of a total denial of reality. Walker assumes that the Janesville, Wisconsin plant could have been saved. The Janesville plant shutdown in started in June, 2008 and was completed with the last vehicle coming out in April, 2009 when the plant completely shut down. After President Obama came into office there was nothing that could have been done at that point because the shutdown process was nearly completed. Here is a quote from the Washington Post with the website linked directly at the end of the quote for reference:
"In short, the Janesville shutdown commenced in June 2008. Once it was clear that aid wasn’t forthcoming in November, actual assembly lines were being shut down by December. It is true that Paul Ryan tried to get the Obama administration to save another plant, in Kenosha, which the Obama administration failed to do. Attacking Obama for that is fair. But hitting him for Janesville is dishonest. The first assembly line stopped rolling in December 2008. Workers unfurled banners declaring the “Last Vehicles Off the Janesville Line” at a “final goodbye ceremony,” The plant was closing regardless of what Obama did.
This is a very strange dispute, in a way. Mitt Romney wrote an op-ed in the New York Times under the title “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,” and now his campaign is trying hard to fault Obama for not bailing out automakers aggressively enough. Not only that, but after the campaign’s repeated denunciation of the Obama administration for “picking winners,” Ryan is faulting Obama for not “picking a winner” not just among companies, but among plants. He’s attacking Obama for not using the government to micromanage GM’s affairs."
Source: Dylan Matthews. August 30, 2012. "Obama could not have saved Janesville GM plant. It closed before he took office." Washington Post. "...www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/30/obama-could-not-have-saved-janesville-gm-plant-it-closed-before-he-took-office/."
As we can see Congressman Paul Ryan and Governor Walker are offering nothing but bogus arguments. President Obama gave out loans to the automakers in 2009 that were attacked by Republicans as being "socialist." Now, Congressman Ryan and Governor Walker are complaining that President Obama was not "socialist" enough for failing to save a specific plant something that is a business management decision of that corporation. Do Republicans want the federal government to micromanage corporations about their specific business decisions? The double speak here on the GOP side is totally absurd.
What I find much more interesting about this entire Janesville plant issue is the big picture, about what it says about the candidate. The "he said she said" interpretation of dates and events can go on. I wish Walker/Ryan would drop using Janesville as the prop and focus on the real point.
Obama used Janesville as a prop in 2008, once in a campaign speech in February, and again in October in a memo. He had two main points in those two different statements:
I've gone back and read the statement and listened to the speech, word by word. I think those are very fair interpretations of his two messages.
Compare those messages and the underlying philosophies and policies that would flow out of them, with a Walker/Ryan/Romney set of philosophies on why our economy is broken and how to go about fixing it. THAT IS THE INTERESTING POINT in all of this, not the he-said-she-said of who is the biggest liar.
To me, those two statements from Obama are perfect examples of why the man has to go. He believes that income redistribution through tax policy and government programs, and government intervention and support, are the answers to our economic problems. He could not possibly be more wrong on both counts. The man is a socialist, straight up. I just wish he'd admit it, embrace it, and be transparent about it. He's hostile to business, he's hostile to the private sector, he's hostile to anyone and everyone that has the audacity to create wealth and have wealth. If he could push a magic button that simply made everybody have everything the same, and have everyone receive everything they need to live from the government rather than have the responsibility and risk of procuring for themselves, he would hammer that button HARD and think he had succeeded. God help us all if he gets re-elected. He'll do all he can to make that button a reality. Count on it.
reddog writes, "I've gone back and read the statement and listened to the speech, word by word. I think those are very fair interpretations of his two messages".
why should we trust your judgements of "fair interpretations"? you have not established any credibility.
and as for "the big picture" no right winger has ever established credibility on that account. period.
neither romney, nor ryan has any credibility considering their lies on medicare, welfare, and romney's tax returns.
Marvilus - then read it yourself, and listen to it yourself. I just did it so I could be informed by someone other than faux news or the idiot talking heads at MSNBC, and as a service to lazy people like you who don't want to take the time to actually listen to or read the source materials. 2 minutes on google and another 5 minutes to read/listen and you'd be informed and in a position to contribute some actual thoughts based on facts, rather than just being another uninformed mouthy jackass.
ok, reddog, i'll play your silly game. give us the link where obama says specifically, "I solemnly promise to keep the janesville plant open and employing 100% of the people currently employed." or words that say substantially the same thing.
let's find out who's lazy or credible.
or a texty jackass.
On top of being a lazy mouthy jackass, your reading and logic skills are showing to be VERY thin.
If you read my original post, I never said that Obama said anything like that. In fact I said I could care less about the he-said-she-said of the Janesville plant closing. I was making a point, lost on you completely, about what Obama *DID* say, in his own words about the economy and the way to fix it, NOT about the Janesville plant.
And the challenge to you wasn't for you to give me your personal research assignments so you could affirm your intellectual laziness. It was a challenge you to DO THAT YOURSELF. You're demonstrating quite the democratic skill set - asking someone else to do the work for you. Congratulations!
Again. Google. 2 minutes. Youtube. 2 minutes. You become informed of what was said, not what someone said was said. Try it. Your brain might stop its slow decline into atrophy.
yup, reddog, i knew you'd fail, texty jackass. to me a promise is a promise. vague statements of wishes and dreams mean nothing.
people's interpretations of other's words or writings are open to interpretation and personal biases. i assumed you were smart enough to realize that but you proved me wrong.
too many people are swayed by other's biased views. i am not.
one thing i've found to be always true is that individuals of low intelligence who have been exposed will lash out with invective often characterized with moronic name calling.
i think it's hilarious that "the red dog" was intellectually bested by a "lazy mouthy jackass". hee-haw.
Republicans are so desperate to win. They are even crying to mommy!
Ratings tell all.
Msnbc 8-11PM 1.2 million viewers.
Fox 8-11PM 5.8 million viewers.
Ain't no one watching madow and the gang. !.2 million LOL...
ho-lee-cow must have been watching as well as all the others casting aspersions.
I'm a conservative, but I much prefer to watch MSNBC. Not because they're typically right or smart. Mostly the opposite. I sometimes appreciate Maddow's intellect and effort. Sometimes. I usually like Lawrence O'Donnell even if I think he's wrong much of the time. And there's something about Chris Hayes that I love to hate. He's clearly intellectually VERY bright, but he's so smarmy and effete that he's sometimes sickening. Ed is a a boob, just a tool of the unions. And the "Reverend" is a racist to his core, a truly disgusting human being. The rest I can take or leave. But for some perverse reason, I much prefer to watch their apoplectic reactions to the right over the dumbed down Fox News fist pumping.
yeah, red dog, it must be refreshing for a conservative to actually see facts and data presented to debunk right wing lies and prove left wing truths.
what little I've seen on faux gnus, they never present facts or data or statements in context to backup their lies, hence, the imbecilic "we built it" campaign.
to me the classic stupidity is bill o'rally who twice said that american soldiers massacred unarmed german soldiers in the malmedy massacre in wwii.
don't bother looking for transcripts on faux, they changed them. there might be video though, it's hard to purge that.
So what, you do know that viewers don't get counted only members of the Nielson families are counted so when Fox brags it has x amount of viewers they are lying.
MSNBC's smaller numbers merely reflects the fact that there are less intelligent people than there are unintelligent ones.
Mediocrity and stupidity wins through strength of numbers.
As Fox's number's attest.
Here is a quote from none other than Mitt Romney in his essay in the NY Times "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt." from November, 2008. Read these two paragraphs and pay close attention to Mr. Romney's explanation of a $2,000 extra per car cost that American automobile manufacturers have to pay per car:
"First, their huge disadvantage in costs relative to foreign brands must be eliminated. That means new labor agreements to align pay and benefits to match those of workers at competitors like BMW, Honda, Nissan and Toyota. Furthermore, retiree benefits must be reduced so that the total burden per auto for domestic makers is not higher than that of foreign producers.
That extra burden is estimated to be more than $2,000 per car. Think what that means: Ford, for example, needs to cut $2,000 worth of features and quality out of its Taurus to compete with Toyota’s Avalon. Of course the Avalon feels like a better product — it has $2,000 more put into it. Considering this disadvantage, Detroit has done a remarkable job of designing and engineering its cars. But if this cost penalty persists, any bailout will only delay the inevitable."
Source: Mitt Romney. 2008. "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt." New York Times. "..//www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html"
Please pay very close attention to that $2,000 cost per vehicle figure that Governor Romney quoted because it is of critical importance to understanding why the Janesville, Wisconsin plant had to be closed. It is because of our health care costs. Look at this quote from an article written by Charles Hugh Smith for the Daily Finance:
"It's no secret that the U.S. outspends other countries on health care. Health insurance alone, including premiums and employee contributions, averaged $12,680 per family in 2008, according to the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, a respected health-care nonprofit. Overall, the U.S. spent 17.6% of its gross domestic product on health care in 2009, more than double the percentages spent by Japan, Britain, Spain, Italy or Australia.
But health-care costs are far more than just a health issue; they're also an economic problem. The skyrocketing bill for health care, including both public and private expenses, is reducing America's competitiveness as a global producer of goods and services.
Want proof? Take General Motors. Health-care costs added between $1,500 and $2,000 to the sticker price of every GM automobile, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), noted in a recent report called "Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness." Even back in 2005, a GM vehicle's price tag included more health care than steel."
Source: Charles Hugh Smith. March, 2010. "Skyrocketing Health care Costs Hamper U.S. Competitiveness. Daily Finance. "...//www.dailyfinance.com/2010/03/18/skyrocketing-health-care-costs-hamper-u-s-competitiveness/"
The Janesville, Wisconsin GM plant closed because America's health care system is making us uncompetitive in the global economy of the 21st century. The average cost for family health care policy was $12,680 with the U.S. spending nearly 18% GDP on health care. This cost is more than double what our competitors in Western Europe and Japan have to pay for health care. Mitt Romney has just made the perfect argument for a Medicare for all public option.
and the money to pay for that is going to come from where? oh, that is right, from every taxpayer in the US...except for the 47% that dont pay federal income tax...sounds like a great plan...rob from 53% to give to 100%...
it must suck to be you Rex...
just saying...
It must suck to be a stupid GOP hack. Everyone pays health insurance premiums and the high deductibles, user fees, and other co-pays cost families thousands of extra dollar on top of the premiums. The GOP health insurance plan is where or what for 50 million uninsured Americans? We already pay $13,000 per year for insurance premiums for private insurance for a family. What we would pay in Medicare premiums would be much cheaper than the continuing rise of private health insurance premiums that could easily reach $26,000 annually by 2020 at current annual increases. The GOP would rather sit on its ass and do nothing while America goes bankrupt support corporate insurance gangsters who are forcing our plants and businesses overseas.
right on, rex! medicare for all but the 1% would save the country.
Interesting headline for this blog. Walker walked all over Rachel, Ed and Al. If hey saw that as a win then they really are twisted
Only because you wish it so but reality is when Walker resorted to lies he lost.
Facts are facts:
SUV (a majority of the plant's production) halted December 22, 2008
Light Truck (a small volume of production) halted April, 2009
Plant placed on Stand-by (according to this GM press release) on June 26, 2009
The plant didn't close under Bush! It closed June 2009, under Obama. The plant had 2 major contracts, one was for SUV, which closed production in Dec. of 08, the 2nd contract was for light trucks which closed June of 09'. This is typical liberal spin!
so what's your point metoo? your lack of credibility has been exposed before. i've read various posts that say the plant was closed at different dates and i've seen posts that the plant isn't closed but on stand-by which means it's not actively operating.
so what does that have to do with ryan's and walker's lies that obama "promised" to keep the plant open? he never "promised" that.
Presidents make proposals and then the Congress is the next step--Our Do Nothing Congress is to Blame, particularly the obstructionist Republicans in both Chambers, e.g., the majority in the House of Representatives and the Filibuster[ing] Senate Minority. Their number one (1) goal was to hurt this President and in doing they intentionally allowed the economy to remain dormant by not even considering any of the POTUS' proposals, i.e., the entire Jobs Bill, and other proposals and as a result "hurt the people of this great nation."
The "Jobs Bill" was and is a DISASTER. Thank GOD the congress had the balls to kill it. If stopping the President from borrowing another bazillion dollars from future generations to spend on his pet projects in the form of "stimulus" is being "obstructionist", then I'll take obstructionist all day long. Congress didn't stop Obama's agenda because they wanted to hurt Obama. They stopped Obama's agenda because the HATE OBAMA'S AGENDA. And thank God they did.
The American Jobs bill would have created or saved two million jobs according to economists who studied the bill. The American Jobs Act would have saved many hundreds of thousands of public sector jobs and created more than one million plus construction jobs to rebuild our infrastructure. The GOP House failed to pass this common sense bill in August, 2011. The GOP Senate filibustered the Small Business tax credit bill that economists said would have created one million jobs. So now we are up to three million jobs lost because of obstructionist GOP. These two bills together would have lowered our unemployment rate to 6%. So much for the "jobs, jobs, and more jobs" agenda of the GOP House under Speaker Boehner who continue to fail America.
The GOP House failed to pass the Farm Bill, that is essential for agribusiness industry, that was passed in the Senate in July. The Farm Bill is critical for the agricultural Midwest, South, and Western U.S. Farmers, ranchers, and agribusiness are a huge industry that supports many Main Street businesses all across America. Bankers loan huge sums of money for farmers and ranchers to put in crops and feed livestock. All of these businessmen need to know what the government programs for price supports, loans, insurance programs and a host of other policy minutiae because business decisions have to be made on these government policies through the Department of Agriculture. So the GOP House is failing American businesses again during a time when farmers and ranchers need help during the worst drought since the Dust Bowl days.
Remember when you vote GOP you are voting for more tax cuts for the top one percent and for everyone else to permanently decline. Vote Obam/Biden 2012 and for a straight Democratic ticket in your Congressional and state elections.
red dog, do you realize that you just exposed one of the biggest right wing lies including pinnochio ryan?
the right wing liars have lied incessantly when they pontificate that president obama has not proposed any policies to congress. the fact as we all know is that he has proposed many policies, many espousing conservative policies, but because conservatives want america to fail they vote against everything proposed by obama.
well i guess we know who the liars are now! thanks red dog.
These Re -pug larva are like lemmings they will follow these Re pug clowns over a cliff to their deaths!!!!!!!! Rob-me and lying Ryan will use you and slit your throat when they are done with you sheep!!!!!!!!!!!
That was a very insightful post. I feel like I really learned something. It was so clever with the repeated use of carefully constructed plays on words. Touche! The the conservatives on this board feel very put in their place I'm sure.
Someone, anyone... please post something intelligent in English. Make a point, cogently. I beg you.
we might suggest the same to you red dog, as well as the other right wing posters.
i have yet to read anything substantive from any of the right wing propagandizers.
oh yeah, i forgot to compliment you on "cogent". please be cogent as well.
We need a Medicare for all public option available at the insurance exchanges in 2014. Our health care system costs are double what most countries we compete against pay for their more efficient single payer systems. Until conservatives in this country pull their collective heads out of their rectums, and push for a single payer health care system, America will continue to stagnate and decline. We could lose most of our industrial base if we do not adopt a Medicare for all public option that tightly regulates health care prices. This whole discussion is like rearranging deck furniture on the deck of the steamboat Sultana during its final trip up the Mississippi during end of the Civil War. If we do not adopt a Medicare for all public option we will all drown for sure in a river of red ink.
Those countries that have single payer health care systems will continue to have all the future job growth and new business start ups while America's economy stagnates and declines. If we do not have a Medicare for all public option America will continue to decline economically because we can not compete against those countries that have more efficient single payer health care systems. This issue is larger than ideology it is about America's standing in the world. We can no longer afford our hugely expensive and dysfunctional health care system.
The private sector is what is driving medical care up because private companies are only interested in making a profit and not providing quality health care.
willrogerswasright, are you stupid or just ill-informed? medicare is purely voluntary, or didn't you know that?
keep your health care program. you say you can afford it, so keep it. for those of us who can't afford the exploding health insurance costs, medicare will help.
when you turn 65, i hope you will be true to your word and not take medicare or social security benefits. it will leave more money for the rest of us who need it.
I'm sorry that you are clueless but it is pretty brave of you to be the first tea bagged republican who admit he contributes nothing after all everyone knows tea bagged republicans always accuse others of what they are guilty of.
Is Cheney that old? But this quote from the bible must be about Republicans!
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.
Fascinating ,I was just watching Debbie Shultz and Mathews blasting Walker because the plant was closed before Obama took office. Someone should hire fact checkers. Sorry, but the plant did not close until June, 2009. Bob Beckel admitted that a little while ago.
Sorry again you are wrong the plant doesn't close as soon as GM announce it, that is why they decided the last SUV would be assembled 12/08, then said that it could take until 2010 to completely stop all work at the plant. Really you try to use a Fox news talking head for your proof on Eds blog, well we know what you are now.
The plant had long since started the process of closing down in December, 2008. It completely closed down all assembly line operations in April, 2009. So spin it all you want the Janesville, Wisconsin GM plant could not of been saved under any circumstances by President Obama.
GM confirmed today the Janesville plant DID NOT CLOSE but is idled. So why hasn't Obama got it reopened as promised? Of course the Chevy Volt is also close to ceasing production.
Right cause Obama can order the US armed forces to go into GM head quarters and force GM to reopen the factory. Good lord are you people ignorant in civic lessons.
whomi.........Really? You should have left it alone bud!
right according to a discredited tea bagged republican posting on a left wing blog showing the world that his ego is 10 times higher then his intelligence. Heres your sign, DOH.
Being from Wisconsin I can honestly say, walker is an idiot.
Thank the Ed Show for having the GM Plant workers and Retired workers tell the truth about the lies the Junior Republican Mr. Ryan told about GM plant closure. Brad Dutcher and Ron McInroy, former Janesville GM plant workers, join Ed to clear up Paul Ryan's convention speech lie about the plant's closure. "When Wisconsin needed him most, Paul Ryan turned his back on us, repeatedly voting against legislation aimed at helping displaced workers," said Ron McInroy, director of UAW Region 4, which covers Wisconsin. "He voted to cut unemployment insurance (UI) and voted against extending UI several times when protection was what Janesville workers needed most."
Brad Dutcher and Ron McInroy, former Janesville GM plant workers also stated that everyone in the room were President Obama supporter, because the retires felt that because of President Obama's decision to put money into GM, they were able to keep their retirement.
Thank you Ed for your brillant report you showed the American people that our President cared about our people and he did not let politics stop him for helping the Middle Class American People.
Thank the Ed Show for having the GM Plant workers and Retired workers tell the truth about the lies the Junior Republican Mr. Ryan told about GM plant closure. Brad Dutcher and Ron McInroy, former Janesville GM plant workers, join Ed to clear up Paul Ryan's convention speech lie about the plant's closure. "When Wisconsin needed him most, Paul Ryan turned his back on us, repeatedly voting against legislation aimed at helping displaced workers," said Ron McInroy, director of UAW Region 4, which covers Wisconsin. "He voted to cut unemployment insurance (UI) and voted against extending UI several times when protection was what Janesville workers needed most."
Brad Dutcher and Ron McInroy, former Janesville GM plant workers also stated that everyone in the room were President Obama supporter, because the retires felt that because of President Obama's decision to put money into GM, they were able to keep their retirement.
Thank you Ed for your brillant report you showed the American people that our President cared about our people and he did not let politics stop him for helping the Middle Class American People.
OMG. I am pounding on my desk and screaming. NOW you ALL know why we needed to recall this @!$%# and why we protested for DAYS against his bull@!$%#.