The pundit consensus seems to be that Romney won the first presidential debate in terms of style, but according to MSNBC contributor Ezra Klein, he fared poorly when it came to policy.
"Romney managed to sound very specific on issue after issue," said Klein during MSNBC's Thursday night post-debate coverage. But he said the Republican candidate's claims didn't add up.
Take Romney's tax proposals. "He's said from the very beginning, I've got this big tax cut plan, but I'm not going to pay for it, I'm just not going to say how," said Klein. Romney repeated a similar claim throughout the debate, while saying that he could not reveal all of his plan because he had to negotiate some of the provisions with Congress.
"The idea that he's going to go back later and negotiate only the hard parts ... seems kind of unlikely to me," MSNBC's Rachel Maddow added.
On health care, too, Romney avoided revealing all of his plan, instead saying that he had a "lengthy description" available elsewhere. But his actual health care plan, Klein said, is 396 words—"about half the length of a normal op-ed column."
"The debate kind of felt to me like an inversion of what we've seen thus far on the campaign," said Klein. He said that usually Obama comes across as the candidate with specific policy proposals, while Romney is criticized for his vagueness. However, Klein added, Romney did not actually get much more specific during the debate—he was just "able to hide in those pockets of vagueness he created."
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mitt is definitely going to win!
In your dreams, he like. the liar he is, took the bait, hook line and sinker! Wow are you that slow, OK English then,
After stating 47% of America are moochers, his words deadbeats!
1. campaign funds dried up
2. his pick for VP was jumping ship ( first time a nominee picked for VP did not give up his seat, remains on ballet to keep his seat, campaigns in his state, to keep it, tells you what? Even Ryan believes Romney is the deadbeat, and it will be a cold day in hell before America votes him in!} Ryan has a family to feed. If he loses current seat he has no job.
3. Romney has to pay to fill seats on campaign stops aired on national TV. That ticks him off wife's words HE IS CHEAP!
4. After being stupid enough, to be caught saying 47% of Americans worthless that is why they vote for Obama, he will not waste time on them. The Well has run dry. Big money not filling campaign accounts!
5. 10 million in debt, unable to pay anyone, has to do more fund raisers to beg for money he can't get. Money once available to him from his own party, now he has been shunned, money has to be used, to hold on as many house seats as possible, they fear Democrats, controlling House, Senate and White House, more then the President being re-elected.
So Romney was limping badly, for President to take him out in 1st debate, not much fun. Democrats needed more time to unseat a few more Republicans, for full control, to get the Presidents jobs bill and much more. When they once again controlled Washington.
So he let Romney, look good, the best part is Romney and Ryan are such arrogant asses, they will really lay on, the lies and as much bull@!$%# they think the American people liked of his debate, as Obama reals him in slowly, and then President Obama, will sink his best slam dunk ever!
Long before Romney and Ryan know what hit them, the American people will have spoken, the election is over, oh yea they never even came close!
Oh did you know all moderators this election are white Republicans. Guess who paid for them.
With Republican voter fraud rampage spreading, they are running scared! Worrying about there own seats.
State courts freezing, voter idea laws, until after the 2012 election, they had to try something! So wake up!
Dee, I completely agreed with you.
I agree with what you have stated. However, I just wish that Obama would have called Romney out on his lies or at least confronted on some of the gaffs he has made during his campaign. Obama just did not seem like himself tonight. I hope that he watched a tape of this debate, so that he will be more assertive at the next one.
Romney was hot and bothered, untruthful and reckless. Obama played it so cool. He didn't need to call out lies or distortions. The chattering pundits will do it for him, and his reckless contradictions of previously stated positions will enrage his base and give the Democrats lots of ammunition for future campaign adds. It will take a little time for the dust to settle, but Obama won this one just by being smarter and more politically aware than the Stench.
Obama didn't seem like the President i'm used to seeing.I have to admit i was concerned about his performance last night. He seemed tired. Mittens HAD to come out swinging. That guy is in a desperate situation. Can anyone really believe anything this guy says? Next week or today, he'll say something totally different. I'd like to hear someone shoot down the idea of why state controlled health care is not the best idea.
I think Obama was tired. While Romney spent weeks practicing Obama was dealing with campaign stops and the uproar in the Middle East. Romney totally switched from what he had been saying and came to the middle which will enrage the base. Obama does not like debates. If you recall Hilary won most of the debates against Obama. I do not think it is a game changer for Romney. The pundits will laud him but the American people do not trust him.
Romney's distortions and misrepresentations of truth will become today's campaign ads for Obama today. In the end, Romney was not smart enough to stick to the facts. This vs. Obama who detailed his position consistently.
I hope that the voting public is intelligent enough to see beyond the forceful performance of Mitt Romney. I believe that once the voting public realizes the man offered nothing in the way of specifics they will demand that he tells them what his plans are. But then again, his plans change so quickly he probably has not had the time to develop the details.
I'm glad you used the word "performance," because that all it was. He looked presidential, he sounded presidential; but when you look behind the curtain, there's nothing there.
If this were a stage play, Romney won. If it were a debate for facts, there were none.
None of the debate surprised me. Mitt Romney being forceful looked like a spoiled child, with the" he went first so I go last". Mitt won? Yeah I guess so if you believe that facts, truth and no details combine to equal a win.
One debate does not a President make.
It's unfortunate that being rude, obnoxious and bullying a man who is trying to moderate a serious political debate is considered a win on style, much less anything else. President Obama is doing what he does. Assessing the situation and planning his next move. Nobody could know who Romney was going to be in this debate (which includes the Republicans considering he flip flopped to the left of every word previously spoke in this campaign). The President has never been an abusive candidate. He was spot on when bringing up facts, and in my opinion, he is the clear winner tonight in both style and substance. Next debate, and the one closest to elections, watch him crumble that ivory tower Mitt Romney lives in.
Mitt is using the Republican Trojan Horse strategy - Tell the voters your reasonable and middle of the road, then get elected and bring out the attack on women's health, vaginal probes, union busting, and voting rights. Wake up America - we are being played!
The president knew that this debate would end up being Romney vs. Romney. It was brilliant. Comes off soft, calm, and spoke directly to the American people without being hyper and rough or disrespectful to the moderator. The media will spin this as a Romney win but the facts will indict him. Pure genius.Ezra , Romney won on style if you call boardroom bully a style. he was zero on substance.
I agree wholeheartedly with you. I was dismayed that many people though that Obama came off as being basically a wimp. I did not see it that way and thought it was a tactic. He allowed Romney to spew his lies. The aggressiveness that some admired in Romney was no more than his being a bully. I do not consider a lying bully to be traits I want in a leader. Though it seems that many Americans want their leader to be aggressive, stand up to other countries such as a 'show them who is boss' attitude what with the proposed increased defence spending that Romney has in store. What good is all that when America not only ends up being surely a powerful country but also a most hated country with a most hated leader.
@Kimber I totally agree. It seems like the media are interested in blood sport, not an intelligent debate
President Obama just set up the Romney campaign by letting Romney flip once again on national television!.....
I totally agree that President Obama gave Romney's campaign 'nothing' but consistency, but Romney gave the obama campaign ammunition.
I keep hearing about how Romney won the debate. If one counts being a bully and a liar as being winning attributes then he won big. I could not stand watching him with his permanent smirk. Obama made some/many of his supporters-some of who are MSNBC hosts-irritated for not being more aggressive, but that is not what his character is. So Romney can smirk all he wants and feel that he has manipulated the voting public into believing all of the airy fairy stuff he presented. But there are still many of us who know what sinister plans he has in store to get rid of the middle class.
Yes, Abbey-3935653, I totally agree on the bully Muttz. However, are there really 'many of us' enough to get to the polls and VOTE !!!! nem
Romney's "style" was simply deflective attack. Perhaps his planned strategy all along. To some he may have appeared to take an offensive but based on how he performed it was more like being defensive. It was the same behavior someone engages in when you point out something they've done and they start yelling at you with other issues and allegations against you, not the issue you pointed out in the first place.Did this make sense?
On a Republican-style debate, he did. A lot of bluster, bullying, constantly interrupting; he was on the Republican debate stage. Obama did the best thing he could have done. Gave him enough rope, and let the fact-checkers have their way with him.
Besides, it's not the first debate people wil remember - it's the last one.
This is Round One. Your opponent swings the first blows, but he will miss on the second blow. He's an "excellent" liar I will give Mitt that he has lying down to a science. Obama 2012!
CFR puppets the both of them....and owned by the NWO....
as far as tonights debate, o bamma was a joke, stuttering, lying, and Romney mopped the floor with him....lol but, O bamma will blame the moderator though.....lmbo
I am blaming Jim for the way he let Mittens get away with the debate!!! Ed is upset, but I think Pres Obama is setting Mittens up for round two. He is a flip-flopper know matter how he comes off a a so-called debate as this one. I also thought that maybe there is a big problem that has the Pres upset or worried to not bring his best. I give him a pass tonite.
I posted a long and thoughtful comment! Where the hell did it go? I'm not going to post it again.
I'll just say that Obama won this one big time!
"we created 32 million jobs" had no idea that Obama was part of the Clinton administration. Furthermore, Intel, Motorola, JDSU, AMAT, Microsoft, Oracle--they created those jobs--Mitt is right build the base.
Mitt Romney is a LIAR. Not sure why President Obama didn't cll him on some of his lies, I know Obama knew when he was lying, so maybe he wanted to let everyone see what a big liar he is by letting him go on and on like he did . He (mitt) told a boat load of lies.
i think the president wanted to see where Romney stood before he cld attack him coz obviously he cld hv thrown in the 47% issue or even his refusal to show us his tax returns for the past 10 years and i m pretty sure he is gona use all that in the last debate
Where is my President, and what did they do with him? And, will the real moderator please stand up?
Well, it sure wasn't what I expected. Although Romney said lots that could have had holes poked in it, he still managed to run all over my choice... President Obama.... AND he ran all over the moderator too! Here's hoping the next debate isn't 'All about Mitt'.
Rant comes to mind. Romney mowed over Lehrer and threw many issues, including unrelated ones as answers to the questions, but mostly didn't answer them. It was just a Rant. This resulted in an unfair "debate" because how was Obama supposed to respond and time constraints didn't allow him to? If Obama threw in Obstructionist Congress and the 47%, it would have reduced Obama into an attacking argument. We know already about Congress and Romney's position on the 47% even though he tried to clean it up with talking about the "Poor." Showing he still doesn't get it. Think about it, Romney's strategy was to throw himself all over the debate to avoid answering with specifics and to prevent Obama from pinning him down on them. From reading comments and tweets, it appears we, the viewers, had a different take than those covering the debate on MSNBC.
MSNBC coverage of the debate was wonderful until after the debate. I was very disappointed in Ed Shultz and Chris Matthews. They were so critical of the president.
I think the POTUS handled this debate, and the bully who would not stick to the rules, quite well. It was a debate session not an argument. We've heard the lies, gaffs and flip-flops enough to know that Romney was holding fast to his lies. The President gave us a plan for the future and backed it up with facts, Romney called the FACTS a lie. If the President had acted like Romney, the media would be having a different conversation, probably calling him too aggressive and angry.
To Chris Mathews about his rant last night: I watched the debate and wonder why I saw it so differently than you. I saw the same bully boss in Romney that all of us in the working world have endured since forever. He disappointed you because you are able to live your life free from an oppressive in your face supervisor. You have a bully pulpit of your own that doesn't have to tolerate bald faced lies about how we are turning this all around and I'm looking out for your best interests and the next day behind your back will place you on the next hit list.
We have all had to sit in those formal all agency meetings where you get a free cup of coffee and stale donuts that were left over from the corporate meeting the day before. In that corporate meeting the real story is given to the no nothings that never have to carry out their pronouncements. Those who attend the executive supervisor session have no clue of what it takes to do the actual job. We just have to sit there and take it knowing that they do not have us in mind.
The President looked us at home in the eye and explained as Bill Clinton did and calmly gave the real story that it isn't going to be a cake walk. We don't want a President who interrupts and talks over the others in the room and won't listen to what the rest of us who do the work have to say. President Obama is the cool head in the room who has to deal every day with nut cases running amok all over the world. We can't feature the song and dance man Romney holding the reins of the largest economy in the world, the nation with the power to end civilization, the man who represents us to other nations and millions of foreigners with their own agenda. Some of those specific nations are with us while some not so benevolent.
Maybe Obama wasn't after the pundits approval-just me.
It's interesting....The only defense dems have is that Romney is a liar. They can't argue that Obama has a better plan. Can't show where he is a liar. Can't show that Obama has a clear plan ahead and sure don't want to show his record. Even Obama said that we don't want to look back at the last four years, but want to look ahead. Very telling. When Obama couldn't answer questions or explain something, he asked the moderator to move on to a different topic. Really? Is that how a President promotes his views? And Biden talks about how the middle class has been buried the last four years. He is spot on. Obama's ineptness goes on.
Romney has a track record of working across the aisle. Obama hasn't worked with the republicans at all. My way or the highway. He doesn't even meet with very many people, Congress, cabinet members, CIA briefings etc. Not important to him. Campaign, Campaign, Campaign. A+ on his campaigning.